This Canadian Man Makes $50k/day Selling Digital Products(No Highticket)

Hey guys welcome back to another episode of the offer owner Spotlight series I'm super excited to have today's guests on because he himself is what we like to call an a publisher or an Auer publisher and what's super impressive about what he's doing is he's currently publishing one offer that is doing around $50,000 a day with cold traffic and I actually had the pleasure of being able to verify these numbers a few months ago When we hopped on a call and I got to see behind the scenes and it was truly impressive and and so

today we're not going to be leaking the information on what the offer is if you guys ask we won't tell you we're going to keep it private but I convinced Doug to be here he doesn't do many of these but I convinced him to come on and just share uh what he's doing and hopefully help you guys see so much further at what's possible in this game of online Marketing infom marketing and just business in general and so Doug I appreciate you being here today no worries my pleasure well one thing that I found super

interesting about what you're doing with your publishing client we you know we'll call it your partner because obviously you're partnering with this person who's the face they're the expert and you're just the person behind the scenes I find it interesting because when I talked to you you weren't doing Any High ticket so there's no high ticket right you don't have a high ticket back in it's not like there's group coaching it's strictly you're just doing low ticket right now correct all low ticket yeah I've never I mean I've never sold anything over over $1,000 it's

crazy how does one get to $50,000 a day then with just low ticket because you hear you know a lot of times High ticket do high ticket or do 5K Charge more and people think it's impossible to so how do you do that what do you think it comes down to I mean really like I we've spoken about this like I come from an e-commerce background and so doing 50k a day in e-commerce is is not that big it's not that big right like doing 200k a day in e-commerce consistently is that's a big brand

but like there's a lot of companies selling 50 to $200 products that do $50,000 a Day $100,000 a day and so coming from that background just being I was just had the um the experience of being like well you can do it with a physical product you could do it with a digital one right and just have to take those e-commerce principles and apply them to info um and yeah that's how you do it right and what uh what like what doesn't cross over from Ecom to info though have you noticed anything like ah like

how we Market it or grow it doesn't relate like what are some differences yeah yeah the biggest difference I learned it's taking me a long time because I switched I mean I I've been I still do some e-commerce but like it took me about 5 years to realize that like when when you have an offer that has e-commerce product and an info product e-commerce is always easier to sell um than the info product because when someone buys e-commerce like if you Buy a pill you just all you have to do is take a pill and

it does all the work for you whereas when you buy a course or templates you're buying work so you have to you know that like I'm buying this thing and I'm going to have to do all this effort so that's one of the biggest differences that I found but there's a lot like honestly there's a lot of crossover I find in terms of uh paid ads funnel building upsells all that stuff and the last thing I'll say is just like My I'm not against High ticket I just you know there's two ways there's two ways

to do it right there's the hormos like you have a really small Market but you charge lots and lots and lots of money and you can do really well that that way and then there's the opposite where you can have a really huge market and charge very little money and you know yeah yeah that's one you you personally I know we've talked but a big thing You' always Get on me is like Tam like total addressable market and I like come with ideas with you and you're like n not big up what is your like

I like for total addressable Market what number you looking for and how do you kind of get an idea if you're you're close to that or not yeah and like I I want to actually just want to share one thing before we we go into that one but it I remembered like before I got into this partnership that I'm in right now um I Was working with some other clients like I was doing R share before um as like media buyer flash funnel Builder info products um and I went to the kajabi like headquarters they

had like this this m not Mastermind uh focus group like right after they raised like 500 billion dollars they flew all their biggest people all of the biggest clients in were like or not all the biggest but like a lot of like the bigger ones just to to ask them like What could we do to make a like Enterprise you know something youd pay like $2 $3,000 a month for and when I was there you know it was they're all kind of seven figure businesses there and there's this there's this two there's these two people

who kind of were like the the uh like the real life version of like the argument I have inside myself between High ticket and low ticket so one of them you know she sold a $3,000 program and the other guy Had a $14 a month membership and I met them both the first day and like you know uh the the woman she was like super strong personality like Boston accent like you need to charge more you need to charge more and then this uh you know this guy I I forget his name but he's like

well I don't feel like it you know and we we stay up really late and they kept going back and forth and then it turned out like at the end of the night I was like how much how much money did You make last year and how much money did you make last year and they both made almost exactly the same like I think it was like 1.8 million and I was like this is this is it like you there's there's more than one ways to skin a cat I guess is the the saying but

um that was really formative for me and then another another experience that happened there too was like one of the people I met her and her husband had This offer that like was it was for sex and por addiction and they were telling me like these guys are at rock bottom and they come into the program they completely transform and that was for me like that it was I remember seeing that and coming home on the flight being like man I want to find an offer that like transforms people that like they come into it

they don't have to be at rock bottom but they just have to this gets into Market into Tam like Tam is not just is not the only the most important thing but like having the right Market you know if you if you want to do low ticket and you don't want to have sales teams and like you know coaching call and then build your coaching team you have to go low ticket and in order to do that you need a big enough market but like it doesn't just need to be a big Market um one

thing that I found like in my publishing Criteria was like the market needs to be big enough like something that like one in 10 people would experience and it needs to be like either really uncomfortable or like a really deep deep deep desire that they have and so like the you know in that that sex and porn addiction thing you know I again it was it was super inspiring to see people transform and like an example that I use is like crying babies like you know I've got I've got two kids my youngest one's Now

like 14 months old she's still not really good at sleeping she wakes up like four times a night to to feed and like so when you think about this market like probably every parent with a young baby is not getting enough sleep and so if you have this like this magic product that can an info product or whatever it is that can really truly solve that problem then you've got a really big market and you've got this like transformation Where it's like do what I say for seven days and you'll be sleeping through the night

and your life will be changed and so those are kind of the two like the two aspects I look for in the market is like like a really deep desire sometimes it could be pain sometimes just desire and then large large enough market so that you can go low ticket the the sleeping baby sleeping offer I talked to a friend he said he Buys this course like every time he has a kid and so it's like $100 it's like some sort of I don't know why you used to buy it over and over but it's

like a challenge or it's oneoff but he was like re get it and go through it and I was like dang it's it's a repeat purchase times how many people have kids like that's crazy Che most info offers it's not even repeat it's like you pay for it once it's okay that's yeah yeah I mean that's another important part like If you want to have a low ticket thing that lasts years like decades you need that I think you need that repeat yeah you need to build that somehow so talking about finding this partnership and

a little later I want I know before we started you talked about there's some business ideas or things that you've been crushing on or liking so we'll talk about that in a bit but going back to finding this first partnership that or this one that you're on right now how Did that come about how did you negotiate the deal what the deal structure look like what were your responsibilities what were their responsibilities walk us through that I know people are G to be curious yeah yeah totally so it was I mean I've been in I've

been doing marketing for quite a long time like digital marketing and um I had like good trophies like you know seven figure a year businesses ones that I'm like this was at zero and then you Know here's what I did we got it to this so that was um that made it a lot easier but I had a criteria basically I wrote it down it was like large enough market with uh you know that deep deep desire um I I wanted to find an expert who had been doing this for more than 10 years uh

so I didn't want to be fling someone who's new because I wanted them to like be able to make a really good product you know and if you think of like in my mind It was like think of a marriage counselor if you have someone who's been doing this for 10 15 20 years and you ask them a question like what are the five things you need to avoid they're going to be able to Rattle it off right and so that's that was one thing that was important to me like been an expert for a

really long time um had a product or like a process that can create this transformation so that we can get the testimonials and you know create a Really good product um and so what I did was I just wrote it down like this is my criteria this what I want um then I went looking like I went Googling um I made a spreadsheet I made a list of 10 people um reached out to all of them uh and one of them got back to me and we started working together and that's my current partnership I

in terms of deal like you know yeah so the the way that I do it and the way that I do most Deals is like let's do a three-month trial see if we like working with each other here's going to be the split here's if it goes well here's what I want to do after so so the way I structured it was like hey I'll I'll pay for all the advertising um the sales will pay it back and then we'll split the profits and then we'll do that for 3 months and then after that if

we want to work together we do a 12- month deal profit Share as well and if I hit a certain sales Target during that time it'll trigger like a five or 10 year profit share deal so I wanted it to be a long-term thing um yeah we we eventually ended up doing Equity because like I was looking at the bu I was thinking through the like the agreement and I was like you know what how could I get screwed over in this and I figured if I have a profit share and my business partner owns

100% of the shares in the company And then sells the company that could that could screw me over so I didn't we did an equity deal and I kind of pitched the idea of like being able to sell the company so we did that um which has been great and that's basically how I set it up that's awesome when it comes to selling the deal like how you pitched it one thing I know people think when we talk about like oh yeah you could you know exit info offers or you know some People can some

can't how would you remove the Creator then or the expert from it like obviously you don't need go into Super details you don't want to but what does that look like have you kind of thought of a plan on how you're going to separate them or businesses you want to model totally yeah none of the products or domains that we have have my experts name in them um nice and so you know like you look at any Business that's kind of exit like masterclass.com they've got however many experts on there you you so like if

we're doing like baby you know baby sleeping care if you had like an expert who does like baby sleeping and an expert who does breastfeeding and an expert who does um toddler development and an expert who does like discipline or you know or marriage stuff post kids like you you kind of create this ecosystem that uh Has really good products and then has all the same principles like an e-commerce business that makes it sellable doesn't rely on the founders doesn't take a lot of time it's growing it's not relied on a single uh uh acquisition

Channel um you build a great business a really good business and growing and someone will buy it yeah that's great so um what walk us through then how you launched this product with the expert Did you go to her organic audience first and then to ads I know you said in your deal structure which is different than somehow beginners would do it but you front the advertising dollar so you obviously invest almost like an angel investor it seems like from the start so yeah how was the launch how'd that go just those first three months

yeah so we kind of repackaged um you know my my partner had like an online course um or like a series of of courses uh and and Again like they were shot on a phone um pretty you know pretty standard stuff and um so yeah I think I said she was doing you know maybe a couple thousand a month in um uh in revenue and just couldn't break through the next level and so when I came in um the first I mean the first problem she had was she was giving stuff away for free and

then trying to sell a low ticket and so I used the the AC format We re we we rename the products priced them set up the economics like front end price bump upsells down sells back like post purchase stuffff yep um and this probably you know this is for me was like a really it was it was the first few months was like a big turning point for me in my career because like what I learned was like you know I've been doing marketing for uh eight nine years media buying you Know Facebook ads and

grew companies to seven figures a year for multiple years same companies and the first few months in this project were like they weren't amazing I wasn't super stoked like I thought they were going to go a lot better and I was kind of humbled and I was like man why is this like so hard and so what I ended up doing was I I bought coaching um from uh so Alex ved's e-commerce scaling Secrets uh I've been following the guy for like so long and I ended up by like a stroke of luck getting his

CMO as my coach Mark stter who's I don't know if you know do you know Mark I looked him up after you you referenced him before now he's got like a YouTube channel now Mark builds Brands he's uh I love that he's like putting his face out there like does all these videos no shirt he's just Jack this Jack dude like in a dark room like that's awesome yeah his Thumbnails always get you're like what the heck is this kid he's awesome man he's and so he he like he is like a gangster and like

he's invested in every single Mastermind that you can think of in every single everything he just eats like coaching and what what I learned over time was like you know I was hitting this I was hitting this Plateau right and we couldn't couldn't get past I Think it was like $30,000 a month and I was like you know I know we can do six figures a month I know we can do multiple six figures a month and um so Mark kind of coached me through setting up the AC funnel how to do upsells how to

position things and like with within a week or two of implementing what he taught me um we were like you know hitting record days uh and then it just kept going and And so that's what like that was a big realization for me that like if I never paid for the coaching I never would have figured that out and I wouldn't be where I am right now I'm completely convinced what do you think I'm curious because I I know some people like growing up in this space I would hear people use that or say that

because they were trying to get me to buy their course right obviously you don't have You're not trying to sell anything so you're just saying this because you truly believe it what really was it that he did was it purely tactical stuff that helped was it opening your eyes mindset wise like what did you really what really did you take away from what that contributed to the success for me it was T it was tactical it was tactical um so he's just like just do this like so we we were pushing subscriptions and I was

doing free Tri You know $1 for your first month like you know trying webinars trying all this different stuff and he's like just do the AC funnel like 20 do a $20 people don't like subscriptions do a $20 thing and then upsell here and and um it was tactical and he's like here's how to do the here's how to do the upsells and and a lot of that stuff came from Allen and a lot of those tactics are things that I know that like I know that have been around for a Long time but I

just didn't know and so that that's looking back on it I'm like they're 1,000% is levels levels to the game and if you're not hitting your your goals it's because there's something you don't know and there's something that other people know and like now I'm like I invest so much in in coaches Consultants whatever and it's in my opinion it's the highest Roi that can have um and those people should charge a lot of money because like they could They could tell you something like they could tell you one Zoom call could make you 100K

a month yeah yep you know so true um mentorship you know like what was I saying there's levels to this game and like people like Alan it's like there's there's these Affiliates are these people who are like so creative that that yeah for me I wouldn't have found These tactics anywhere else um yeah and then for then over that time it was like the tactics were working the business was taking off and then I had to per my personality had to catch up to it like my selfworth my like the whole mindset stuff Mark didn't

really help me too much with that he was just kind of like you know I think we did 5K in a day and I was like if we could do that every day like my mind would be blown and he's like okay so you did it once why can't You do it more than once and I was like I don't know why not and that was kind of the the deepest like mindset thing that we that we had but now like after him for a couple years like we we we have more talks about the

like the deeper mindset stuff but uh yeah some people you know yeah I I see so on on Twitter like I'm not I don't have a profile but like yeah I follow a lot of the the directed consumer the affiliate people and so many of them trash people Who sell courses uh about how to make money but like they're like oh you know why don't you sell a course blah blah blah but like in in my experience like buying people's courses sure you're going to have a bunch of stuff that's not that doesn't work but

um you'll find stuff that will like really change the game for you yeah that's super interesting what do your responsibilities look like now at this Level doing over 50,000 a day what does your team look like at this next level of of offer publishing yeah it's pretty pretty lean um and and for a while I think it was to still was probably too lean um but it was like me my business partner we now have a CFO who does like tax compliance and current see money stuff um we have 12 customer service people uh full-time

and growing that's great I Know we talked we like yeah man just just got to hire more customer support I was like that's how you know you're pushing volume I was like that I don't think I've ever with like the smaller markets I've been in where higher prices like you're customer support like the last thing usually you hire for but that's crazy like what you're doing like 12 think this year we'll probably get up to like 20 or 25 people uh full-time customer service just answering emails Um and then we've got a video editor slva

who kind of posts like the organic social stuff and she'll she up until a couple weeks ago would edit all the ads or I would edit the ads um and I use some contractors like REI uh built like to design the funnel before that though like when I the first year and a half I built everything I wrote everything I edited all the videos um uh but then I was like okay this funnel is so ugly like let's make it Look nice and then a few months ago I hired uh two like senior marketing people

to help me CU I'm like I'm doing email I'm doing cro I'm doing ads I'm doing plus I'm doing make trying to improve the product plus you know so I have a cro email Guy now is awesome uh and creative strategist nice so just focusing on the ads so it's just ads then or you say Creative strategist okay just just come with the hooks how many ads are you guys testing a day right now like new variations or are you just just running the winners uh we'll probably do like 10 10 new 10 variations per

week okay um most of them are like like iterations on winners and then a couple of them were trying to yeah get new yeah get new um New Concepts to work basically yeah what does your cre your partner think About the situation uh results there yeah when we when we share numbers like when I do reports like it's just like a lot of swear words like has her personality caught up with how much money she's making now like or she like what the like she's you know or is she pretty like yeah I deserve this

let's go make she's awesome and like yeah so we compliment each other really well um and so yeah my um has her Personality changed you know this is something I heard from like Warren Buffett say I'm a big Warren Buffett fan and he's like money doesn't make you evil doesn't make you good it just makes you more of what you are so if you're already evil if you're already good Mak more of that and so you know my my business partner she's really passionate about health you know and so she's um you know She's she's

traveling quite a lot she you know yeah that's you know but I wouldn't say she's changed yeah she's changed a lot that's crazy think about when you first partnered with her she's like making a couple thousand like yeah the course sales are probably like 60 to 80k a year maybe um and now you're doing that in a day yeah yeah on good days we'll do on good days yeah six figures yeah but Um in terms of like it's it's interesting to our partnership because like I've gotten to points like where where she's she's got she

always opens up my mind to like even bigger like so she'll do it and then I'll do it and then she'll do it and we kind of play this back and forth G cuz when I approached her I was like hey I think we could do like $5 million a year like that's what I think we could do and she's like what What and then you know we blew past that in the first year and then uh then when we started talking about the equity deal I was like we could probably sell this for like

10 to 15 million like as an Info app product she's like what that like never crossed my mind and then and we had this joke between us like I was like Hey I want to get to like 100,000 frontend customers and she's like really like I feel like we should like shoot for a Million and then that's kind of become the new goal of like the front end customers but then now it's like transitioning to like a million like subscribers or like members recurring so that's awesome yeah and then like I had the conversation hey

like I think you know this quarter we could if we spoke to like Brokers we could probably sell the company for like 30 plus million dollars and like to me that's a big deal and she's like yeah But you know so like for us like there's so many more people to help which yeah she because it's like she she still enjoys it it's like might you might as well stay in it because you're going to leave and then you're going to want to come back in anyways totally you hate it burn out as well sell

it maybe like anything over 100 million like will really consider and I'm like okay okay and and you know again it's like what am I going to do if I sell this right like It's yeah you're gonna go you're gonna go publish someone else probably in a giant Tam and yeah or again yeah and you know like so now it's kind of becoming like the the daily sales has become like it gets old really fast uh which everyone says but then when you start to experience it like oh yeah this wears off really fast so

it becomes more of like who can you become like in this process of like building a team building a business that customers Love like that becomes more motivating you know because like yeah than like daily sales like those they're cool but they wear it wears off super fast dang that's awesome yeah so talking about now the businesses that ideas things you've kind of been looking at I think it's pretty cool what are some cool things you're seeing yeah in your world that have been exciting you said you're crushing on them yeah what does that Mean

and what are some of these ideas okay so I've seen some offers that either are self-published or someone I mean one of them I know someone's publishing that person and it just opened my mind to like possibilities and this is for you too so like the you need to do um that I've been telling you that you need to do but like like zooming back like up until a couple months ago i' had always been um I was like like we started Talking about like how big I think publishing is and it's like it already

has been really big for a long time the biggest names that we know have all been published like you know there's like bernee brown is an author like uh Mark Manson that guy's got a subscription I think he says he's got like 20,000 people in his membership someone publishes him I don't know if Mark does your your guy but um yeah I he's the one that publish other people Like totally yeah so he's like did did he work with um um Mike Tyson yeah he was he broker the deal he did Jake Paul FL May

Mike Mike Tyson like this is the thing I think is so cool about publishing is like you have someone like Mike Tyson I think he had a podcast where he's like he's smokes weed on his podcast I think yeah I don't know pigeons yeah or something and then someone someone made a product that is an edible a weed edible it's the shape Of an ear and there's like a bite missing out of it you know what I mean and it's like that is like such a good product yeah and when you look at it you're

like obviously that makes obviously that crushes yes obvious you know and then so for me I think about those big those big names um um and then like the world's biggest publishing offer that I think exists is like Beats by Dre which I told you did You watch all the defiant ones yeah what is what was the show called again I watched it the defiant ones yeah defiant ones yeah so Jimmy iven published Dre came up with the idea of Beats by Dre partner with Dre and then they sold it to Apple for a billion

dollars or two billion or something I'm saying it's like it's out of this it's not just info it's like Ecom Ecom is a big publishing you know that's very like a lot of YouTubers you see a lot of Publishers And they're always going the agents being like let's do this product but I was listening to like the Mr Beast interview yesterday if youen you should watch it at the Colin smear show and he's talking about how like a lot of creators get it wrong or like these companies come to them sell's Grand Vision but they

don't make a good product and okay this is the perfect lead like I don't know I've never watched a Mr Beast video I find them Like I don't have anything against him I just yeah no it's just Z bro I don't understand it you know stay inside a circle you got to watch Beast games though dude you got to got but but okay this is the this is my newest business Crush that I'm like got it right like got it right and I think um is okay so Mark Rober do you watch Mark Rober so

I think he's publishing himself but like yeah you look at his business Like you know there there's there's there's a I listened to an interview with him and these these two guys um and he talks about his story and it's like man that guy figured it out he figured it out period like he makes way less videos than Mr Beast uh so quality over quantity you know how people like post a thousand times a day he's like once a month or something he figured that out Um his products are like next level like my son

was sick and so we were watch we like I forgot about him and then we I put on a mark Rober thing and then he gotes the call to action in the middle of the video four minutes go you know and what he does is he like so Mark makes these super big builds right these like big Rockets or whatever and then shrinks them down sends them to you in a subscription box that you can build yourself and you each one comes with the Video where you learn the engineering principle behind the build and they're

super fun um and he he's built so much Mo right like those products are like I think he said it took him like two years to develop them those products like you cannot rip them off um one of them is like he has a satellite in outer space and you could take a picture of yourself from that satellite like no one you can't replicate that right and he's kind of like you're were just saying About Mr Beast is like the companies come to you and it's not the right fit and I've got a really good

like there's I had a really good lesson about this in the past but like let me just finish on Mark Rober like you get these I bought it right it was like 300 bucks a onee subscription you get them every month um all these different builds comes with the video um and then in one of the boxes he Puts a Golden Ticket where like if you get the Platinum ticket you get to go to his headquarters and like hang out for a day and like one time it was like he's going to pay for your

college like $880,000 you win so like the products are so are so well like the congruency between his content is so perfect true um you look at it it's like next level like one of these hackpack things it's like a rocket right it shoots these little It's like those Nerf darts like a Nerf one but you could program it so like if someone turns on the TV it points at them and shoots them you know someone comes into your bedroom it points at them and shoots them so parents love it too because their kids are

because it's like a sell to the parents your kids are hands on they're building stuff the cell they could maybe go into Tech may they make want to go into Tech they'll get a higher paying job video games like bro Yeah so like the whole congruency between all that is so is so good um and even the way he introduces it in his videos it's like a five minute call to action and I'm like it's long dude it's so good it's just but you don't you don't skip it yeah you don't skip it yeah so

what what about is that why are you crushing on that or how do you see what like that he built around the product it's it's it's it was an example for me Like how to level level up the quality of your product so that no one can compete with you yep yep yeah so like the golden ticket is only one thing but like you know coming back so this is going to tie into what what what the Mr Beast guy said and yeah Mark and kind of it's an example it's like experience I had once

um so like I've worked with a few big in like influencers in in my life like once was like like Kylie Jenner for about a Year and a half like with her they launched five products I mean sorry five businesses and so I got to see the behind the scenes that and that was crazy wow that was absolutely crazy yeah and like putting this out there like all the people who who say that her business wasn't worth a billion dollars they got it wrong like when you know e-commerce multiples and like yeah her business smashed

and the reason was she Had a super engaged audience and and she with the Cosmetics created like the perfect product for that audience that super engaged audience cuz she also launched like Kendall Kylie like which is like a fashion line barely like barely did as well as the Cosmetics she launched a merch site which didn't do as well as the Cosmetics like nearly anywhere close and like the lesson here is like you know I've seen That work really really well and then I've also worked with a guy who's like a photographer who did a course

and he had seven he had like 700,000 followers and you know when I was freelancing was like help me launch this course help him launch the course made like $3,000 and I'm like why why why why and it the the reason was his audience liked looking at pictures But they didn't want to learn how to take photos they just liked maybe like traveling like looking oh my gosh this a beautiful whale mountain or whatever true so product Market fit and like that's kind of I think probably what this what Mr Beast is talking about but

like yeah for me you know you have to those two experiences like you have to I I think of it like a comedian you know comedian has to be able to read the room and you know like you have to know What the people want and like come up with something that's going to like make a reaction in them and like those same that same Market that same group of people a year from now is going to respond different to like right now and so you have to be able to read the room and feel

like you need that how how do you do that though because I get what you're saying because I feel like in certain markets like one of the things I've developed like over time you just Like hicc it's like a six sense I don't know how I could ever teach it to somebody yeah but like how do you obviously you look at forums and do it but it's like does it just come down as there's no level of research there's no level like yeah a bit of research matters but but like got be doing it research

like I think Mark Rober in that there's an interview I think Samir something in Samir yeah Colin Samir same gu This he's like no survey would anyone ever come up with this idea so it it's emotional intelligence right you call it feel but it's em the reason like I say like a comedian is like emotional you have to be able to feel those things you know so research matters you have to be able to see the people and pick up on the cues and then invent or come up with be creative in a way that

like you know when when when someone's talking and like someone's like yes queen or like Like that person's yes there's a match like a product Market fit match and so you know I you just got to be in it like I just think you have to feel you got to be in it right like if you sell a product to people who go to the library a lot like if you go to the library and you set up a booth like what's going to make a bunch of people come to your booth and like want

to give you money for your thing Yeah and like you got to like throw it out there and test like pumpkin spice latte with Starbucks no focus group would a customer say I want pumpkin spice in a drink so it it it it takes these like you have to have that that that feel that intuition and then you kind of put it out there in in in a focus scam like what does this taste like like oh that tastes like fall yeah Uh so it's that X Factor you know and how do you do that

like on we're online so a lot we're online so do you ever just like because sometimes I'll be testing in person as much as I can like one idea I had the other day of a thing to publish I think I don't know how much Mo would be behind this yeah but I was I like there's this app called Yuka or yaka and you essentially can scan products and it'll give you a rating on like how good it is for you there There's other ones like it I'm sure there's one called like some Angie or

I don't know but you scan these products and like tells you if it's good and so like yeah kind of like looks like that I'll show you the ranking right it's like green and then it'll show you like oh there additives then that you can like look at the additives and then if you click into it it shows you like the warnings like hey these things are like Lous right now what I was thinking about Is my wife right now she's always trying to figure out what food won't mess up her hormones or her Psych

all those things and it's like a big concern what can she what can she not what causes acne this like there's so many little things and it seems like an impossible game where you feel hopeless like that's such a big problem what if there's an app where you scan the products but it's just more towards the female market and then it's like scan it and tells you uh This product has been in lab report shows that right you're kind of like arbitraging data from other places you're really a data research company you scan it what

you should doain so right it sounds like a lot lot of freaking work and but I was like I asked her I was because I was like doing trying to feel it the room I was like would you get an app like that like would that help you she like yeah and so I've just been asking like just R all The women all the time like would you ever use that and they're like 100% but then it's like they're like well how do I how can I trust the data and I get all these like

cons right so I'm getting feedback but online how can we do like what are some ways that you can even do that yeah it comes I think you know I think it comes down to like mechanism so for you like you know which I think is one of the more important parts of like copy or product development like because Product you make the right product it has the right mechanism then it's going to resonate and it's going to create that aha in the customer yeah then they're going to then they're going to buy so like

like give them that hope right cuz you're saying your um your wife was feeling hopeless right so like say acne um you know mechan like coming up with a mechanism you have to understand the Problem really well like the science in this case so you know a great way to you know and then the delivery so you have a mechanism in like the the delivery of the product so like acne um you have to create an aha so you you have to um come up with like do the research and find like here's this hidden

cause of acne that no one's talking about and then you you kind of lead with that right cuz if she has acne it's on her Mind she's probably tried creams tried this but it's like you know if you have acne it's because you know 90 93% of acne is caused by like the type of air that you breathe when you're sleeping and people like what and it's like well because of this air you know can't get into your nose properly then you know you get I don't know it causes this sort of thing that happens

in your skin and therefore the best way to solve that is like with this either a cream or this Breathing technique or this diet or this app that makes you like okay it comes down to like ribo flaven or whatever and it's like and that's hidden in every single thing so maybe your app would help so you have to have like a mechanism that's like true and actually works so like the product is like really important like everyone's like offer offer I think products really important you can't have a good offer without if You have

a bad like because a product sales problem has to fix the problem yeah uh and then what so if if it does fix the problem better than everything else then you get testimonials and so then when you're sharing this with people like oh would you use this app like oh what about what about the what about the data and then they see hundreds of testimonials being like this is me before this is me after this is me before that kind of squashes that true True yeah you think about that the okay yeah so how does

product mechanism I think is really what solves that but when you're publishing someone like with your partner you got to dig it out man did did she have like when you went to her was it clear like could you see oh like or did you have to architect it yeah so I was I was like trying to publish my wife at one point and I might in the future um with her some of her subject Matter and like the first step for me is like okay the person like we'll go back to like the marriage

counselor thing is like if I was to publish someone like that the first thing I would do is like okay they've been doing this for a while they've got a good track record with inperson clients and I would have a few conversations to develop the sales messaging just being like why why is it so hard why do like you know and then like dig dig out like all The problem and you're looking for those mechanisms the TR truth is really what it is you know what's the truth and um sorry let me just plug my

computer in um what's the truth and then you know the mechanism comes out and then yeah um the the the problem Point like you know here's the reason why so many people struggle and then the solution like and because of that this is what has to be done what I'm curious to what you think about this one of my Core like in my mind like after being in the game for like eight years now I'm trying to like over time create like my principles or like my core tenants because I believe everyone can have their

own we have our own personal things in terms of offer tenants like these are my fundamental like tenants or principles for me it's like if the product or the offer the messaging isn't disruptive like I don't want it like it needs to disrupt what other people Believe to be true do you agree with that or not um is your product disruptive um I mean it is disruptive because it's better than the Alternatives it's better it's cheaper it's faster it's easier all those things and so yeah product really and you know I'm we're always working to

improve the product like how do we make this easier how do we make it simpler how do we make it Integrate more so yeah ours is disrup um but also like yeah logical we're in a really yeah Market where there's not a lot of like good Solutions so like sleeping babies like you know everyone there's a few methods that exist right and those methods are well known it's like cry it out or suffer or like the the middle one like the Ferber and like there's a few methods but Like if you if you can if

you can like find an expert who's figured it out better that's the key because like you know let's say like the reason the reason why babies wake up so much at night and cry and scream and they have a hard time falling back asleep it's not because they're tired it's because when they wake up uh you know this isn't true but like the liquid in their ear isn't developed properly and because of that every time they wake up they feel like They're falling out of the sky and they're scared they're so scared and so that's

why they scream and that's why they need to be comforted and that's why they need to get put back in the you know uh nurse back to sleep so that's the reason why and then people hear that like oh oh man I feel so bad leaving my kid in there or like you know that makes so much sense and then it's like we have this um what this little tape that goes on the side of their head that like Makes them not feel blanket or a method it's like hard of me thinks the reason why

some products do well over others is they just have a better Narrative of like what like you I was thinking about Nvidia or whatever how their stock is just going up and the narrative was like chat VT is built on their chips AI is the new thing it's not going anywhere AI is a future so and like without these chips AI won't work so let's invest in utility But then we saw deep seat comes out they build something better than chat BT without Nvidia and then their stock plummets and I was like they were that

was like built on a narrative and I think obviously like the you know until proven different like it has to be the truth you can't make you can make up a fake narrative that's scammy and you turn into like a click Banky offer that's like trash but I'm like I feel like some products like they could be Really good products but they just have a terrible narrative and it sounds like like what that whole thing The Narrative like they're falling out of the sky like that whole thing it's like dude you can't for you won't

forget that you can't look at the world like any different you can't or like yeah yeah like anything yeah narratives are powerful I mean the stock market it's a voting system again like War buff it like it's like yeah you know I work when I worked at shopy like when the company went public um you know the CEO said the value of our company just went up 60% in a day did we make 60% more money no do we get 60% more customers no just more demand for the stock made the price go up and

like the opposite happened right and there's like that squeeze that happened with uh GameStop where like a bunch of people on Reddit were like hey all these rich guys are trying to short GameStop let's buy a Bunch of the stock and then the stock went way up and like those hedge funds lost a bunch of money and narrative narrative against a rich guy yeah yeah so I mean Nar is important um but like you can't make it up like it has to yeah it has to be true cuz they're going to test you they're going

to to be legit it has to make sense and then your offer and your product has to make sense and then be like oh that's going to make my life so much Better so with your creator when you went to her and you saw what she was currently doing could you clearly say oh she's got like already good product I you need to Market it or did you have to do things to help it become a better prodct like what role did you play in making the product better MH yeah um so the product was

already really good it was based on like her years she'd been doing it for like 10 15 Years before as like a you know practitioner um and so the product was really good um I could see that like it's better than the Alternatives and uh so the way way we packaged it improved um we kind of took the main offer broke it into different pieces so that people could you know get like an intro yeah the economics add on customize it for themselves that sort of thing but uh yeah the first thing is just like

understanding the product like super Deeply if they have a book like reading it all getting the essence um yeah and then even developing like in the messaging we definitely develop we definitely developed the the mechanism uh quite a lot yeah yeah yeah another one oh sorry no the last thing like I feel like part of your role as an auor publisher is extracting like you said like the Mechanism of the narrative like part of it is like they might they might not be able to see it or know it but it's there and sometimes it's

not and you're just like like I know one the deal I told you about I was working on I thought I was like they seem so clear and then I when I started extracting I was like oh no like there's nothing here it's like like or it's nothing different so I think one big takeaway for a listen is like you have to kind of develop that skill of Like extracting from people and like quickly seeing do they have it do they not but yeah yeah yeah there's a lot of things that they need right they

need to have personality they need to have a good method or system um and again it's like goes back to Magic like you know when no one like Dr like again Dr Dre lost his job signing Eminem and they're like he's white you want a white guy to come rap like you've just had a bunch of failures And then he just saw he saw something right and he's like this guy's different he's good the world right now is going to respond well to him and they did um another example like I'm not crushing on this

one but I'm like impressed is uh you know Brian Johnson the live forever guy the guy who spends like millions of dollars a year yeah healthtech yeah yeah so like that guy is doing a good job and just had a documentary released on Netflix right Yeah yeah and the documentary was done really well and I could tell like they got the e-commerce side set up they got like a blood analysis thing set up and you know he's he's a he's a different dude um but the documentary you could see like his chief marketing officer kind

of like goes to his house every day so I don't know if she's technically publishing him or what team has helped build the Ecom out but like the Um the the documentary he did was actually brilliant like and you could tell on his on his Twitter X or whatever is like um oh you know we're so sorry our customer service response time 7 days now we didn't expect this huge we had we expected a big thing from Netflix but not this big um yeah and like that's where again like I think you need like your

next deals need to go is like um like this Mark Rober Brian Johnson like you know Netflix it's it's basically a vssl their documentary and like yeah that's what I heard it's like so brilliant yeah what is so brilliant about it is the writers there's three or four times where they they they take his objections his criticisms about him and put it right out there I think it even starts with that like this guy is so weird this is inaccessible what about all of us who don't have $2 million a year um you know and

they really SM they so they played that right and like this is where like copywriters you know and I'm getting inspiration from is like he's a controversial dude and has there's a lot of criticism and he just like leans into it you know and the documentary really hits that um you know but talking about mechanism the guy's selling like olive oil like it's premium right no way but he's also selling his supplements Right which like I think are good I think the supplements are like prob benefit you um but you know like okay what yeah

and he's but he's got a method right you look at his thing he like stops eating by 11:00 a.m. so that he could sleep better at night so he has breakfast at like 5:00 a.m. he's it's like interesting different mechanism so people are like oh it's kind of like Li tried That he was like a crazy experiment he was kind of like that very controversial yeah yeah you need a better product you need not to lie yeah I know like you need to not lie I mean his supplement companies dude they were he already had

some before like eight figure supplement companies then this like built up another it's h yeah it's a lie but he knew what he's doing he knew the uh this unethical way to do it but he understood like the controversial Like having a controversial character message yeah I mean you got and Andrew tape like yep super controversial crazy huge subscription like other guys Iman yeah Iman Gody Al mark back he published Alex Jones back in the day and that was like that one did like 3.2 million in a day or something it was like cuz super

controversial and die hard people hated him yeah love him yeah but like the reason I have such a big crush on Mark's Setup Mark Rober setup is like he's doing everything so well like with such good Integrity you know making a like really good products that are good for the world like not just making content just to make content but it's like entertaining it's like purposeful um you know and it's like his heart he's just such a good just seems like such a good person you know and he's just like giving a gift to the

world and when you look you know they've Delivered millions of boxes like the company's probably done 30 to 50 million so far and eventually like I think it's going to keep because it's a toy it's almost like Toy Company it's better educational so you think about like he's essentially competing with toys or you know entertainment for kids so and his see cost acquisition is almost I mean he spends video money on his videos but you know it's got to be cheaper than if you I'm sure AdSense pays for the video Production true probably just more

than that and then um I think the the takeaway I'm hearing from you on this is one obviously product like or the first thing is like you said with your first deal you want something that transformed you want to publish someone that like the product would transform somebody and would actually do good for the world so that's like a bigger you know having something that is going to do good for a World a gift to the world the second thing obviously is like you know a good product to do that which kind of plays hand

inand or you know a good person who cares and then it's also like Mo which is like byproduct too like having like just a good product people can't compete with those like the two things I'm hearing like when what you're looking for in publishing deals or what you did that may go against just like just anybody or you know oh you Know yeah those are those are two big things tactical mentorship you know people who have like done the thing that you want to do um which again like you know I can't have one of

these talks without mentioning Alan stonich like the stuff that like the stuff he teaches is is like it's completely Next Level and you know I got it through a lot of it through Mark yeah but then going straight you know going straight into fast forward or nhb is like you Know one of these things you know he you know you'll listen to like a super long call and then like you'll say one sentence and that sentence can like change your business and one of the ones that he did for me I don't remember which call

maybe was offer publishing or maybe membership but he's like you know one of the biggest things you could do for your business is like put love into it like put love into your business and like when you think about it that way Like when I heard that I started thinking about my customers like doing like almost like a meditation like thinking about these people who like could be transformed and then just being like what can I do to like yeah help them you know and that going is going to force you to make a better

product um and that's that's what it is for me you know is like yes you need a good Market which is like big Tam uh in my opinion trans transformational like opportunity to transform someone a product that's way better personality like having a having the right fit between you and your uh your expert your partner uh reading the room and just like feeling what does the world need right now and testing it out and getting the feedback [Music] um uh yeah tactical like iCal mentorship Uh and like I think longevity is like a really important

thing and that comes from the product cuz like yeah I think a lot of people can make six figures a year $200,000 $300,000 a year but I think getting up to like the seven figures a year seven figures a year in profit you have to make a really good like you have to have a really good product and it has to be a great experience for the customer yep and that's unfortunately like you can't easy To do process it you can't you either have it or you don't you make it or you don't like yeah

there's no timeline like that's one the things you just have to like let go of as much as like I think a lot of Internet marketers including myself before I used to be like just give a process to make a good product or like what what's the secret it's like shoot like there's not like you just most companies they just spend years developing their products they're not Profitable forever and so but yeah like there's Clues right like and this is probably a big lesson for me is like success leaves Clues and that's why study people

like Mark jimmmy iven all these people like Eminem like why is like another random okay not random but like publishing a friend of a friend of mine works for they do the merch for um Universal Studios and all the Eminem and all the celebrities and he was like we Were having dinner one day and the guy's like yeah I was like what was the coolest product you ever did like do you do you do custom stuff or just merch and he's like well the coolest one we ever did was Eminem's childhood home was being demolished

and so he went and he took all the bricks the 8 Mile one of the houses on 8 Mile and you sold each brick for 500 bucks and it sold out in like 30 seconds and I was like that's like it's cool right yeah yeah it's like Yeah memorability it's like it's like yeah collectible yeah but um I don't know there's success leaves Clues right which is why look at the biggest like Amazon they're doing something right like Netflix Disney plus when they launched that was a that was so cool yeah coming out at $6.99

a month like penetration pricing that was crazy and they had this they clearly had this whole plan like remove all your stuff from Netflix Oh You guys want to watch Marvel it's over here now like success leaves Clues you know always studying these things you can always learn from you should watch the Mr Beast interview from Colin smear you'd love it he he it's crazy because for product like he got so his chocolate company febles he's found out that I think it's like over 90% of Coco is like sourced From like Farms that have like

chod labor and he was like bro like he was like that was like that's awful and so it's crazy what he did he like went to like this places and he started like negotiating with the farmers like pay him enough so that they could not have to hire children because the other Hershey's everything they would like screw the cocoa Farmers over so they wouldn't get enough profit until they had to hire children so Mr be I'll pay You more but then they're like well okay our kids are out done working what are they going to

do and Mr be like well can't they go to school and like well we don't have schools so now Mr Beast is building schools so that all so just so you can have a better product and that and then he's doing with the intense that he can start knocking hershe she's being like at least my chocolate isn't Source from and so I was like that's that's love for the product that's Insane like that's insane which is good right you know you want good people yeah you know this thing it's it's an example of probably why

he's so successful and why you know another person like this Mark Rober hearing him talk about like his business it's like they they like they like labor in the details right and they care about like all those little things you know and they find out about that stuff and like uh they dig deeper and like um I could tell he he's Probably it's probably why he's so successful same with Mark Rober and like another person I found her name Jenny Hoyos you know her no I don't what do she do I saw this she's YouTube

shorts like I saw this one video on YouTube is like I can make anything go viral and I watched her video and she like like obsesses over the little details you know and and that was like a really clear example I'm sure Mr be is The same Mark Robert like they she shared this story like she does mostly shorts and she's like I think all of them get like 10 million views or something and one of them she's like it flopped and I was trying to figure out why and it realized that she had a

massive drop off at the last half a second so you trim the half a second off re-uploaded it and boom took off again you know and it's like that that really intense Do do you think people who can't pay attention to detail or don't pay attention to detail can still be that successful or is it like what's your philosophy on that yeah it's a good it it's a good question like if they can't pay attention I guess depends on what extent like what a measurement of successful I mean you think you know someone making 100,000

a year some would be really successful and but then you compare it To like a Mr Beast doing a billion it's like oh you're not that so I guess yeah maybe I think some people on the team have to be that way no matter what like super intense people who uh who kind of Labor over everything someone on the team and I think that's one of the people who's going to be the one who makes the impact so like the reason I say this is because like I think about 50 Cent I don't think that

he's Like what's my where my sneakers made but like you know him working with you know Dr Dre and Jimmy IV like I know Jimmy Iving being like watching that documentary he's like he took over Apple music and he's like he came there's a clip of him in the documentary like coming into the office he's like I went to a family dinner and I asked my nephews do you guys use apple music and they said no and I was like it I was it Made him like Furious and he's like why he was talking you

see him talking to the marketing team why doesn't everyone know about this or everyone use it you know and I think you need you need that every project needs that driver who's yeah you know looking at things like and you could tell like with Allan this is what he would have would have done and like for me it's probably un Healy you know but like pouring over the details of like looking at like the P how people Interact on your page like obsessing like oh like what if I change this one word in like the

upsell like or what what is it you know and it's like people who work with me I feel sorry for them because it's like like super high standards but when I study other people like I mean Jeff basos I think is a super interesting guy um and I think he's super high standard super intense Person to work for I don't I don't know much about Elon Musk I don't know much about other people um but yeah I think I think can you be super successful like if you don't really care about the details I think

only if you have someone who really does yeah I think anyone can do it though I think anyone can do it true it's a discipline like in wanting it yeah I know people lean on like ADHD right like i' I've been diagnosed with ADHD yeah and then when the when the person's like do you want medication I'm like no like it's just it's good to know yeah like I have you know and I think it shows up in different people like in different ways some people have a hard time starting um you know um yeah

for me it's like I have a hard time like like I have to I I I get burnt out really like I will see All the details and feel all the things and then like after a few hours I'm like I need like need to recope uh or just lots of coffee but uh I I know people you know I know there's different avatars of people and people who are they get overwhelmed with the details but I think it's a muscle it's a muscle you can build you know for those people who have a who

have a tough time like getting easily frustrated at page Builders or whatever like I think people can build that skill yeah you can get through that if you want to D so yeah that's awesome anyway answer that like what you said there is like yeah you know people really need like they need to hear this right and this is something that I see like in digital marketing like something I try and tell everyone is like as soon as you create an offer and put it out into the World it's the exact same as you stepping

on to like an NBA court you are immediately doesn't matter if you're a beginner you're immediately doesn't matter if you're in grade eight whatever you're competing with the absolute like you're competing with Mark Rober you're competing with me Kylie Jenner Mr Beast you're competing with everyone for like attention and and you can't get any conversion without attention so I as Soon as when people say Facebook ads don't work I'm like yeah they don't work for you just like free throws don't work for you like cuz you're not like the absolute best in the world and

there's a reason like I know this for a fact rough numbers five roughly 5% of Shopify stores and kajabi stores make enough Revenue to pay for their subscription and and there's a reason cuz it's really really really hard and that's why I pay for mentorship Because and that's why I obsess over things is because it as soon as you put something on the Internet you're competing in the NBA and that's why only a few people do really well so that was that that was that rant that I want to get out there that's good I

love it yeah Doug I appreciate it I think we'll definitely be doing some followup things in future here's some ideas things you're seeing this is very enjoyable and uh if you guys like this or enjoyed it Make sure to leave some love below I'm not going to link you you're there's like one of the get you're like don't yeah I don't have social media there's nothing to find if you guys look up Doug crow.com there's a dude may may not be the right dog yeah yeah go follow him go follow him and you can go

off whatever he's got yeah it's convenient yeah it's very convenient uh but we appreciate you jumping on man thank you so much no Worries no worries