I'm fresh out of psychiatric hospital. And I've got this woman who who I'd met a couple of years prior when I was chairman of the PFA. We were doing an event for Kick It Out, swap business cards, nothing came of it.
She'd sent me a couple of emails. She would send them sporadically, you know, like maybe every six or eight months like just asking about this, but I was for some reason I'd never responded, you know, just been uh happening in the background. And then I come out of psych hospital and I get an email from this woman talking about Pavlov's dog.
And I just just I don't even know what what what what this woman wants. So, I'll tell you what, bite the bullet. Look, let let's let's get together, have a brew.
We'll see what each of the other are working on and if there's any synergy, you know, we we can take that forward. So, let's get together. So, at this time I'm living in York, she's she's living in Acton.
I'm like, "I'll tell you what, I'm going to quite a bit. Let's let's have some lunch. " And then I look at the train times.
All right, all right, the train times are let's just have some dinner. I'll meet you in St. Albans.
We'll have some dinner, blah blah blah blah blah. So, we're going to have some dinner at Lussmanns in St. Albans.
And I met within four four four and a half minutes. I'm like, "You're my you're my human. " Well, it was just the her energy, my I believe in in spirit you know, in in spirit and soul.
We just connected. There was a freedom. There was an openness.
Uh and we just got on and we and that business meeting we just talked through the night. We we drank the hotel out of sparkling water. They had to kick us out, you know, the beer was just utterly amazing.
Um and so I was like, "Right, but we you know, we went on a date after that. " On that second meeting, which was our first date, if you ask Carrie she'll tell you that it was love days, but >> [laughter] >> we met and I >> brought her my psychiatric report. >> Wow.
>> As I look, I really like you. Let's say we're 37 years of age and you need to know what you're getting into if you if you want to you know, you want to have another date. Have a read of that.
If you can work with that cuz that's me right now, then I'd I'd love for us to go on another date. >> Wow. >> So, we had dinner, she read the psychiatric report, she called me back to set up another date.
We went on on another date and I brought her my countdown teapot. >> [laughter] >> Cuz she loved tea. So, I was like, "Look, I want this to be a gift to you.
" Just that it was always like dowry. It was just a statement of intent and it was it was my way of saying thank you, I think, for us still to be interested in me. Please know at this point I've not done any serious therapy work.
>> Okay, I was I was going to ask. >> Okay. >> Yeah.
>> So, that was me still >> Mhm. >> buying, giving for. Um and then I immediately regretted it cuz a week after that I asked her to come in and move in with me.
Bring my teapot back. >> [laughter] >> Did she? >> Well, did she move in with >> She did, yeah.
Within about 2 months Carrie moved up to York and and signed with me and moved in with me. Um but I was starting my therapeutic journey then. Um >> Did you do that of your own accord?
Did you say to yourself, "I need to help you" or were you kind of pushed? Was it part of your >> It was part of my change or die. When I came out when I came out of psychiatric psychiatric hospital, they introduced to me cognitive analytical therapy.
I'd never heard of this before. And to my mind um that it was something I'd never tried and it gave me hope. I In fact, [snorts] I've actually got the time timeline wrong there there in a row.
Um when I met Carrie and she moved up with me, I'd just come out of psychiatric hospital the first time. Um, and there was still 2 years before I'd started probably engaging and and getting well. So, Carrie moved in with me and and we uh, I proposed to her and we got married within like 12 I don't know how long was it, Don?
Within 15 months, you know, we we were engaged, we were married. Um, and through that time, even though I was on meds, it's the first time I'd taken meds properly. That's all I was doing.
So, when I was experiencing challenge and stuff like that, I was just getting more meds and more meds and more meds until 2 years time, the last time I was actively suicidal. That was when I started therapy. So, I'll go through therapy then and I start to understand who I am.
We've now got our first child and we're going to have our second, and this is when I really start to unpick what it is to be a dad. This is when I am deliberately and consciously working on my relationship with my eldest, who I had abandoned for 7 or 8 years of her life, who I'd reintroduced more on a friend basis than a father basis, and we have a very special, very unique relationship now. And I and I verbalize that, I acknowledge it with her, you know, there's you know, we do have a a different relation We how we speak to other each other is not how you know, the middle children and I speak to each other, which isn't how our youngest children are.
>> How's it different? You're more friends? >> Yeah.
Yeah, we we we have I had to salvage that relationship and came to Fran as an outsider who became her friend. And as we we reconnected and bonded, I, you know, I was giving her fatherly advice. But not from a father capacity.
Is I, you know, as I I am your father. And I will give advice, but I can't dictate to you. I can only share my learnings and and, you know, I I advise you on I have preferences, but you you make your own decisions.
And um >> But is that the right approach at that age? >> Well, all at that age, yes. Yeah.
>> Cuz he cuz the As an adult, I say to my dad, I'm 45. The way that you fathered me now is is different like than how he would and he does is different than when he when I was younger cuz he can't tell me what to do. >> Right?
Of course. >> But but but and he shouldn't. But he should be there in advice and to guide.
And as long as you always respect your father, you're going to take his word and listen to what he says cuz you you understand he's been on this planet longer than you have. But >> That's allowing the evolution, you know, in the growth of of your child. There is a point where it becomes adult to adult.
>> Yeah. >> And in that, you can still retain, you know, that that father-son but on an adult to adult perspective. And that can be quite a difficult thing to manage, you know.
But what the the biggest evolution in that was was the fact that we with Fran, my eldest, and with Molly and Honey for, you know, until they were 8 9 years of age, I'd always thought it was the stuff. It's the stuff and and the presents and the holidays. Whereas through my therapy, unpicking my experience and what I've given to them thus far and then bringing them in, fatherhood isn't the stuff.
>> Mhm. >> Yes, there are core fundamentals that you want to feed, clothe, house, you you know, your your family. But, what your children need from you is your presence.
>> Mhm.
