Beyond the Index: Those who win the race to AI maturity, win

[music] Hello and welcome to Beyond the Index, the brand new six-part video series which serves as your strategic compass for navigating today's fastmove B2B world. This series is powered by Denser B2B's fifth iteration and latest, the Superpowers Index. The Superpowers Index is the largest global study of B2B buying behavior.

We've spoken to over 16,000 B2B buyers and analyzed over 35,000 brand experiences so we can tell you exactly what you need to do to win. Beyond the Index takes a deeper dive into key experts um and topics uh from our business and leaders across the industry. My name's Rob Gold.

I'm the president of Density B2B and we believe that there has never been a better time to be in B2B marketing. However, it is an incredibly complicated and fast-moving world. And as we enter the period of the AI powered buyer, it's critical that marketeteers understand exactly how and why and where to leverage AI to give their B2B brands a winning edge.

So today's topic is uh those who win the race to AO maturity will win. And I'm delighted to be joined by two of my friends and fantastic marketers, Alex and Neil. >> Thanks, Rob.

Hi. Hi, everybody. I'm Neil Dowling.

I am um head of global marketing at Genact. Genact are a global leader in Agentic and advanced technology solutions. Great to be here.

>> And I'm Alex. I'm the innovation director Adensu Lab here in London. And my role is to explore new technologies, understand what they mean for brands and businesses across the whole of our business.

>> So arguably perfect guest for an episode about AI innovation. >> I hope so. We'll see [laughter] you in the next 30 minutes.

>> Fingers crossed. Uh okay, guys. So look, this year's superpowers index focuses on what we're calling the AI powered buyer transformations around us every day and the opportunity to create new value and new working processes massive.

However, until now, understanding why buyers and how buyers are using AI in their buying journey hasn't really existed. uh but for the first time we've really dug into this in the superass index this year um about how buyers are leveraging AI to make the decisions and how it's driving most value. So with that in mind perhaps it's no surprise that the vast majority of people are now using AI to buy their products and services.

In fact almost 80% of buyers are saying that throughout the purchase their purchase journey they're actually using this actively to help make decisions. So Neil with that sort of significant stat does that surprise you? um what do you see and what do you uh at Genat feel is having the most impact?

>> Yeah, I I don't think it surprises me actually. I think it does speak to how AI has kind of come into everybody's everyday life. So, if you think about how we search or we shop or consume content, AI is now kind of integral to that.

It's embedded within that. It's pretty invisible at points within that. So, I think it making its way over to a B2B buying kind of cycle and the human beings that are involved in B2B buying isn't is not necessarily a surprise.

I think it does mean as for marketing functions and for for brands is how do you then like incorporate that into everything that you do because I do think it is now reshaped pretty much how you should think about everything from a from a marketing standpoint. Like the the most obvious one is probably how it's affected search. We we talked about it before in terms of you know AI platforms are now kind of circumventing your website.

Search traffic is dropping off. How do then people think about um content and their their discoverability and their search optimization from a from a generative AI platform kind of standpoint. So I think that's a really good example of how in the buying cycle now the search kind of part of that which is a you know which used to be the biggest sort of you know area that you're trying to compete for has completely changed.

But then it does talk to everything else in terms of how you actually how does your marketing operating model think about that buyer journey? How do you think about the structure of your teams, the structure of your content strategy, where you show up, >> your agency relationship, >> agency relationships. Yeah.

So, I think um it just shows that that I think that statistic shows actually just the power of AI in in everybody's life and then also actually how you need to then think very differently about the marketing operating model. >> Yeah. Search is being transformed.

I heard someone say the other day that would you um start a brand and have a website, you know, it's a very interesting different dynamic now, I think. Nice. Yeah.

>> Hey, Alex, what do you um think sort of the most significant opportunities are for brands to leverage AI in a buyer journey? >> Well, the first bit is discoverability and search in terms of if people are using this platforms more, how do you actually find the products? You saw chat DPT last night announced that they're partnering with stripe around a commerce functionality.

So, everything can be done, the whole funnel can play out essentially in chat GPT. So that's the first thing but that is going to evolve very quickly and I think a lot of brands struggling to understand how to react to that change in the pace which is understandable. I think as well to the point you made around the web.

I think that typically websites are a collection of assets and a brand B2B or B TOC will drop them onto a page and say here you go consumer buyer go navigate. I think we now live in a world where the front page of the internet is just a conversational box, right? And depending on what you need or when you need it, assets will be pulled into to serve to serve your needs.

So you look from a buyer perspective like or B2B perspective, I imagine you have websites that have hundreds of project products. How can you have a kind of conversation that pulls those products into to one feed? So it's going to impact every part of the buyer journey.

But for me the interesting things at the moment is the discoverability piece and also how you build digital experiences that are relevant for now but also future proofed and that's the challenge right is that this is only going to increase at an exponential rate in terms of AI maturity as a brand how do you think about if I invest in this now and launch it in a year's time it could be redundant and that's a interesting role that I think we as agencies are starting to play more when it when working with brands. I mean that's interesting something about uh having a physical location or dislocation to go and uh understand a brand a collection of assets called a website. >> Yeah, that in some respects breeds a lot of trust and a bit of reassurance about the quality of that brand.

You think if that doesn't exist like in the future, how do you keep reassuring people around your brand's trusted, your brand's safe? It's quite a yeah we've discussed this like the the different conversations and decisions you need to make about how to build your brand in a sort of AI era really >> I think how to build your brand the way in which I see it is that anything mid-market isn't working right there's thinking fast and thinking slow and thinking fast is your Spotify your Amazon your you know it's go go go go thinking slow is the brands that people want to spend more time with anything mid-market and we've seen this across retail the past 10 years it's just hasn't got a strong value proposition either Okay, so that's the brand's lens and then how we interface with technologies evolving and changing which is I mean you just look at that through WhatsApp voice notes or voice and these different things right there's a reason we're doing that and I think consumers and people are changing we all have choice parameters we all go into a restaurant look at a menu and go we all go on Netflix and go I don't know what to watch today like so I think all these things are playing out to influence the types of exper AI powered experiences that we can build in the future and I think a lot of brands are looking very simply for a tech lens, but you think about it through a kind of human centered design approach, which is a big part of what we think about in in lab. >> Yeah.

Yeah. Hey, look, the superass index this year, um the brands that are winning that we've looked at are focusing very much on what we're calling sort of buyability. So, how easy it is for someone to buy you, to comprehend your value proposition, to buy your products and service, to get other people to be uh reassured by the fact you're making that decision.

And so this whole theme of viability is really important particularly in a world where you've got to blend the old world the new world humanity creativity all those things together along with AI and Neil I mean does that resonate like within Genpack do you what's the experience of sort of buyability you focusing on those kind of areas the customer do you what's going on >> yeah I mean I think always I think I think that's a good example of where like buyability is is a fundamental part of marketing or go to market or how you position the organization I don't think that has necessarily changed as an important thing for an organization or certainly a marketing function to think about. It's effectively, you know, connecting with your buyers, connecting your brand with your buyer, being very clear about the products and services that you have and allowing enabling them to get access to it and then trying to repeat and scale as much as possible, which I think is marketing, right? Um, I think what AI has done and agentic is that actually it's just accelerated a bunch of stuff in that process.

So you can actually you know speed to market or connecting and hyperpersonalization becomes you know easier for brands to actually operate. But I think actually is it's more about the opportunity is probably goes into a conversation around like relatability which is how I think of buyability like people actually relate to what you're like trying to position or what they're trying to buy and then I think to your point like experience then comes into that because in in in theory like everybody will be kind of doing the same things pretty quickly. So like how do you actually how do you actually make your products and services relate to your buyer in a and that that goes to storytelling that goes to creativity that goes to like human and AI working together humans bringing the empathy to that.

So I think like when I think about buyability the the the actually opportunity is actually how do you use AI and the human spirit if you like to to create much more relatable stories and and and create your brand that's much more relatable to the buyers and then I think there is going to be this big conversation around just and you touched on it like there's just going to be everybody's doing similar things then what do you differentiate on I think one of the battlegrounds for differentiation will be experience can you can you have a more connected experience a better experience can you think more thoughtfully about your experience for your buyers when they interact with your website or when they touch one of your products or when they meet some of your salespeople or whatever it might be. I think you'll end up you know thinking about viability will very quickly skew into like well what is the actual experience that I remember with this organization or this brand um and that can be kind of interesting that makes you think really differently I think you have to sort of you know we used to talk a lot about total experience actually in terms of how do you think all the way through your your different touch points with your organization I think in the world of AI and where we're going it becomes um probably one of the battlegrounds for differentiation for brands that win to your kind of question at the beginning I think AI has to kind of help create a consistent experience for brand >> and and at JA you've just relaunched your brand on it is the new proposition it's all about driving uh business transformation using AI at its core right >> yeah exactly that and I think on it is a really good example of that relatability because what we think it's done it's connected not just like it's not just a brand tagline or anything like that I think what it's has done is connected our brand and our capabilities and our culture into one kind of um organizing idea or organizing principle around the tag tagline. So I think we feel that can be quite exciting to drive an experience and a consistency with the organization.

But we did think hard about that in terms it has to do more than just be a kind of you know the front of the brand. We are trying to get that connection and that relatability to to our buyers in terms of does it position what you know what our does it give them access to our products and our capabilities but does it also talk to the the people inside of our organization the culture of our organization. So we feel pretty good about that and hopefully you guys see more of it in the market pretty soon.

>> Well that looks great. Thank you. Uh experience is a good um segue actually.

So we another episode of Beyond the Index is all about experience being a differentiator. So you make a very valid point. So um and Alex on that you know topic of viability you know are there any other brands that you see as doing a really good job at um demonstrating their viability?

>> Yeah for sure. But just quickly on that you were speaking all my language there. a total experience and I think on the AI um AI efficiency versus experience what's happened is these models have come out everyone's locked into efficiency but efficiency leads to a sea of sameness right when it comes to experiences and we have very short attention spans and for me storytelling and experiences are the things that are going to kind of differentiate brands in the future so we're perfectly aligned which is great um in terms of uh brands I think I'm quite interested in Canva they're going for a transition in terms of a business that was more focused on kind of one onetoone sales.

They're now moving into the B2B space and their whole proposition is around they call it kind of B2 business to human. So how do they kind of take that approach and scale up in a B2B world? Um and I like what they're doing with a lot of their comms and they're investing a lot in because they're still a fairly new business, they're investing a lot in AI to get them to they need to get to in the B2B world.

So I like what they're do like what they're doing. I think taking to lunch from B to C um on running as the trainers uh you know and not no investment no investment in them no investment no investment sponsor for these episodes [laughter] >> um >> but they're doing interesting things with AI in terms of how they scale their business but also they're thinking about uh the next operating system for the web and that will be AI power and what that looks like and how that's going to enable them to build better more personalized experiences for their customers. So for me they're they're doing a decent job.

I think for me the interesting thing you mentioned brands I think the relationship between agency and brands is going to change over the coming years in terms of if I'm a brand now thinking how do I bring certain things in house AI capabilities versus work with my agency and what can they deliver and do. So I think it's kind of a a race now from an agency perspective to get upskilled and these AI tools understand how I can help kind of across the funnel and then be that strategic partner to brands. So I think that's an interesting thing that's going to shift as well over the coming uh coming years.

But to answer your question, Rob, I'm a big fan of what Canva are doing um and the B TOC side. I think Anna are doing some interesting things when it comes to thinking about the web, how that's evolving and their role within that in that space to sell more products. >> I was chatting to someone this morning about the sort of parallel track of two things that are going on.

In some respects, building a brand has exactly the same cues as it always has done. like you got to be trusted, you got to be known, you got to be relevant. But the way that you build that brand nowadays is through different modern uh tactics.

And I think not not gravitating towards the second in the absence of the first I think is really really important. And actually in the superpowers um index this year that's launching now, we really unpack trust because trust is just it's just an outcome. It's not we all talk about trust but what is an outcome of something and we're able to really specifically unpack it.

So the three things that drive trust are brand reach so effectively being awareness and are you known brand relevance like obviously am I engaged is it right for me and then interestingly brand reassurance you think whether you're buying toothpaste or software you still need to be assured that you're making the right decision and we break down the purchase decision into uh what we call decision drivers so we analyze well I think it's 30 decision drivers and we rank them all and interestingly this year the one that's had the biggest shift in importance is about ease and integration with uh my business which has gone from 16th to the second most important reason why people are buying products and services and I think that's all around like if you're going to build a brand in today's world you've got to have those kind of things within it but trust and brand safety are really really important but it yeah definitely parallel tracking those two things nowadays is really important >> yeah and the tools and the tech is there it's so it's not a question of technology isn't quite there yet it's just how a brand sets up, it's politics, it's all these human factors that come into it that, you know, means that we can't leverage these tools in the right way and the scale they should be used. Um, and how that plays out is going to be really interesting. There's going to be some brands that are really progressive and maybe crash and burn, other brands a bit more cautious and like it's a really interesting puzzle that every brand's going to make over the next kind of five to 10 years.

Um, which is kind of exciting in a way. So Neil on that obviously Genactive just launched relaunched the brand like h how did you what's the sort of the genesis of the things that you wanted to stay core to in obviously the the historical legacy of the Genap brand the new kind of modern version of it what were the what were the values that you kept from old world to new world I think a lot of actually is making sure that our audience understands like we are actually hyper relevant in today's um world of agentic solutions and advanced tech there something that I I think Genpack has got a really strong story around but maybe not necessarily um you know well known for it. So a big part of what we need to continue to do is is be clear with our market make sure you know viability is their access to the audiences there they understand what Genac does.

I think we we're actually launching a number of um new agentic products to to the market which go into our kind of you know traditional buying areas within you know we're very strong in in areas of data and process um but a lot of it is actually on it is probably the you know the ongoing to your point about relevance the relevant face of Genact for for the AI and aentic world so it's not necessarily a um a recreation of anything at JPack we feel actually some of the the raw foundations and the raw materials are what we've always been very strong at which is um yeah around areas around data and process intelligence. We actually think that they are you the raw materials for how to be successful with implementing AI and and and making the most of the AI opportunities. So some of it really is actually just making sure that our audience understands that we have these kind of you advanced tech and agentic capabilities in terms of the the positioning and the markets that we're in.

We feel that you know our current client base and the the traditional areas of our you know expertise around data and around process intelligence becomes you know they are the sort of the things that AI loves if you like you need to attach it to data and strong data and have have organizations that understand your data and have been running your data and arguably for agentic is you know it really works well in in in workflows or where organizations have processes that you can attach to it and optimize it and and improve it. So um they are really at its heart what we've always done for our clients. So we actually feel really excited about uh the opportunity around agentic and around and around AI um on it I think becomes a manifestation of that in terms of sort of the the exciting opportunity for the company and for the market.

>> Great. That makes sense. >> Very much so.

Hey, look. Um, the topic today is all about winning the race to AO maturity and density B2B and I think as a collection of people, we always love sort of looking towards the future a bit. Um, last year we made a prediction um that by 2030 a third of all to all B2B transactions will be done um online transaction will be done machine to machine which is actually quite staggering.

If you look at the value that's created, that's 8 trillion, not billion, 8 trillion dollars worth of value that will be by 2030 going from a machine to a machine. And that's just huge. Like no, no human intervention automating the processes, just huge value.

Um, so with that in mind, Alex, like if that is really coming down the line, what advice have you got for brands to make sure they're ready for this kind of commerce in the future? >> Good question. [laughter] Yeah, I'm glad you went there first.

>> Um, my everyone talks about test and learn and [clears throat] a big part of what we do in lab is prototyping new tech, right? So, but finding a solid business case to prototype that around. I think with aentic you can start in so many different areas, right?

It could be, you know, I was speaking to someone the other day in procurement and they're saying, well, if our procurement team essentially is a buying agent, you don't need to send us a PDF now. maybe you send us a data feed for that buying agent to understand to process versus other competitors for example right so the whole this whole space is changing so for me I'd say um there's so many use cases what's that low hanging fruit what's the business value you can drive build a solid business case go out and do it lean on partners in the space because there's so many partners that want to do things and PR it so go to a partner and say hey we want to do this but we want you chip in half like be savvy in in that way uh and then actually just start doing things. Um I think the the thing at the moment is the market is saturated with AI this AI that >> I think you just need to roll your sleeves up and start somewhere and learn by doing.

Um yeah that's important important thing. Um for me on the agentic side it's really interesting around things like identity. So if you've got agents talking to other agents [snorts] and across the web, you know, each agent has to have a passport essentially, right?

Because they're operating on your behalf. And then you get to the point of, okay, from a marketing perspective or we're a media agency, right? First and foremost, how are you you're not advertising to people anymore.

You're advertising to agents because they're making the decisions. So it's a really complex challenge but my advice to brands would be start somewhere invest be savvy with that investment have a tight business case around it and then kind of and then move forward from from there and obviously other com certain companies are small companies big companies certain companies have their own internal teams that looking at this but I think um it is a collaborative academia agencies like ours brands tech partners all working together to to to solve some of these challenges. But that's why it's exciting.

>> You got to start somewhere, haven't you? You got to start somewhere. If you if you overplay it too much anywhere.

Yeah. >> If you overthink it, you're not going to Yeah. And and the kind of the great thing in the space a little bit is that you can try something and you'll get the learnings from that.

This by the time you finished it, the the things have moved on. >> Yeah. >> But they've moved on for everyone.

>> So that's okay. Um but it's difficult, particularly in this market, in this economic climate. It's difficult to land that message when people are kind of scurrying around focused on this this thing here.

And we're like, if you don't get ahead of this, it's gonna, pardon my language, bite you in the ass in the future. We can cut that out if that's inappropriate. >> No, no, very appropriate.

Absolutely fine. I think that's a media term, so we can put it in acronym. Um, yeah, I mean that's it's mind-blowing, but equally things are happening at pace, so getting involved in it is really important.

So, hey Neil, you and I have um talked a lot about sort of everything from the wild optimism of AI to the hugely dystopian and everything in between like um so if we're talking like commerce and AI and all the things that are gone there, what other what other things are going on in your world around this kind of massive movement that you think that people all should be having a think about? >> Well, I think you you touched on there it can get quite overwhelming, I think, in terms of like so therefore you just and I don't think there's any right answer. you just to have to kind of start somewhere in terms of how you're thinking about operating your your team and your resources in this world.

We spend a lot of time now looking at our operating model. Is it fit for the future if you like from a marketing standpoint and while we're in the you know the professional services industry if you like you know I know a lot of my peers are having the same conversation in terms of the marketing function that we had you know a year ago or two years ago. it's not necessarily in the right shape or um fit for the future in terms of just some of the progress that's been made with some of the technology now that's out there.

So then how do you start thinking about well actually how do you bring agentic marketing into your into your team into your skill set? How do you start you know creating content that's as much for a machine than it is for a person. So it's kind of I do think you have to um it makes you think really hard actually about just is that workflow going to exist anymore?

Do we need to do that? what talent profile do we need? I do think, you know, and but then I think there's no perfect answer for it.

So, it's almost in a in a in a funny way there's you you just got to get started because you're not going to be you're not going to be perfectly right. So, you might as well get going. And as long as you've got, you know, a good understanding of that internally in terms of the type of marketing model that you want and the design principles around it and the Gentic or AI is going to be a key part of it is to get going and then learn learn from it.

I do think I mean you touched on it a bit. do think there's going to be this thing around the types of people and and marketers certainly in B2B marketing is going to be much more an orchestration of a multiple things where versus somebody maybe being a specialist in one area. I think that the technique or the skill set to enable people to to orchestrate not just the traditional work but actually agents or whatever it may be is going to be what we need to probably profile for or design for.

So that's kind of like you said there's a massive ecosystem around you. How do you start to think about marketing moving from like automated marketing to autonomous marketing? How do you think about your people as orchestrators of several things versus specialisms or uh and you'd include the technology and the agents within that?

So it's uh yeah it makes your head hurt a little bit in terms of where it could get to but I think actually it's a really exciting time to be in to be in organizations that are thinking about it are trying to sort of sell it to their customers at the same time in terms of agentive products but also bringing it into marketing is um it's just going to be an interesting ride I think the next sort of 18 24 months >> and as a you're in you're in charge of global markets uh are you thinking about it like because obviously there's change management in there as well as different shapes of teams formations of skill set and talent. Are you initially thinking about it as a just a a broad plan that you might apply differently market by market or are you immediately thinking it might be different in one country versus another? What's your take on that?

>> It's a good question. Not not even down to that level. I think I think we talked about it in terms of like big design strokes.

I think we have to think about you're always thinking about your audience and their buying behaviors to your sort of first question. Are we in are we in the right shape to deliver to that? You have we we have a very clear company strategy in terms of where we want to go as an advanced tech and agentic solutions leader that that comes into it.

What's the type of marketing function we need to be to to deliver to that and then you think about the technology and the platforms sorry themselves in terms of do we have that skill sets? Do we have people who are understand how to orchestrate those things. So some of it for us is actually about are we being as close to the business as possible, being kind of frictionless in how we deliver to the markets and support the business, being as simple internally in in terms of getting out into the market and having having the right talent and tool set internally to to deliver at speed and scale into the market.

You know, big thing for us is actually, you know, like everybody, it's a really competitive time. I think to your question, there'll be some winners and losers in the market. as a marketing function, we need to be uh as aligned to the business as possible, as fast as possible, as agile as possible in terms of how we operate and and deliver to the business.

So, we think through that lens really in terms of what's the what's the workflows we need, what's the shape of the team we need, what's the talent profile that we need internally. And we're we're we're moving now quite um quite quickly towards a fairly new operating model. But we know that along the way there's going to be, you know, you're going to need to train people a bunch.

You're going to need to reimagine things. It's going to be, you know, there'll be some setbacks and that type of thing. But I think like to your point, you just have to get going with it.

So, it's more so on the bigger design principles of actually where you want to sort of meet the market or who how you have to drive your brand into the market. And I do, yeah, it's a good question in terms of getting down into regional tailoring of it. um probably >> and I uh you know at at Denu the my favorite word is interoperability.

This idea that you know in the agility that you need now to move quickly then why do you have why can you not be modular? So specifically we're doing all these partnerships with really interesting people and companies to plug and play in our capability. So we're partnering with a a synthetic audience business right now who can plug and play around.

We do media audiences uh activate those audiences in media. We're working with people of what the way that we buy media platforms in a different way and even with content and creativity like the way that we're able to work with again big tech companies and some of our platforms around uh optimizing content, changing content on the fly. So this I think well the the ecosystem is so broad now we're working with people to help augment that to move our clients businesses forward even faster rather than worry about Christ we have to do all of this ourselves.

So >> interoperability is the word of the day and I but I actually really like it because it's quite a galvanizing permission statement to go and find other people who can help and plug you in. I think so. >> Yeah, it's important like from a innovation perspective like the whole is it T-shaped people >> something expression.

Yeah, >> that's important for us right to be you know commercial, creative, tech focused having those different hats you can put on. I think that's really important across agencies and brands going forward. >> Yeah.

>> Yeah. Interesting time. >> Interesting time.

Well, on that point of optimism rather than dystopian, uh uh I thank you very much, Alex. Thanks, Neil, for giving us a view today. It's been great chatting to you.

Um some fantastic takeaways on our episode of Beyond the Index today. Uh we've shown you hopefully that if you can win the race to AO maturity, you will win with some practical sound bites from some of the experts in our field. Um if you'd like to find out any more, please check out the link in the show notes and we'll see you next time on Beyond the Index.