Lucrando 1MM/Mês Com VSL E Conteúdo Orgânico | Braz Cardoso - Segredos da Escala #173

So Dr. Frederico Porto was set to record a VSL in a week, and I had to make one. But since I was in the flow, I said, look, let's do three and record everything at once. I made three VSLs in one week, one every two days. The first VSL made a million. And a million back then, for expert VSLs, was huge. Check this out, folks, late 2022, alright? Braz was already writing seven-figure VSLs by then. We're in 2026 now, and only now are people catching on that this even exists. That's wild, man. Exactly. Is there

anything you recommend? Any advice you’d give to people who want to create a VSL? So many people make this mistake today. They launch with a terrible angle, and despite a product and excellent copy, it just won't sell. Why? Because it's Boring. So a market angle is crucial for the success of the campaign you're building, you know? It influences the business as a whole. Braz Cardoso. He’s written VSLs that generated nine-figure revenue for some of the biggest experts in the market. Today, he runs his own info-product business that generates seven figures in profit every month. And

in this episode, he’s going to show us how he structured his operation to achieve those results. We were always fighting about this, and it became a big part of my journey: figuring out how to create more than one acquisition channel so my company doesn’t become dependent on a single funnel. A lot of people have this problem. Once you find a funnel that works, you just stick with that one funnel making money and think everything’s great. But you’re running a business. There’s no Predictability, there’s nothing stable about it. What do you think is the 80/20 of

backend monetization there? If you were to rebuild the Diandra business from scratch, what would you do first with the goal of maximizing profit? Money in your pocket, not revenue. This is extremely important, okay? It took us a while to understand this. We paid a high price to learn it, and it completely changed the way we do business. So, what’s the secret? What I see is this: the secret isn’t the VSL. The secret is doing what Braz is doing here, building a business model around these pillars we’ve been talking about. Today I'm having a conversation with

Braz Cardoso. So folks, Braz got into digital marketing in 2020, when he was just 20. He had a Bunch of failed attempts, affiliate marketing didn't work out, and a few launches didn't perform well either. Until finally, he started studying copy and realized this skill was going to change his whole trajectory. And it really did. Because in 2022, he joined an operation and started writing VSLs that began making a ton, a ton of money. And they managed to make millions for the experts at that company. And all this while barely anyone was talking about VSLs, at

least in the info product market. Actually, one of the first VSLs he ever wrote is still running after all this time, and it's already hit nine figures in sales. Isn't that wild? So after that phase as a copywriter, he decided to build his own operation and brought on a partner, Diandra. Together, they pull in multiple seven figures every Month, and they've built a whole product ecosystem that drives all that revenue. In other words, it's not just a funnel, not just one VSL, it's an entire ecosystem with front end, back end, and branding. So it's pretty

interesting if you want to build something similar in your operation. And today here on VTurb, he showed us a ton of stuff, like how the backstage of this operation works. How he uses content to boost the VSLs he's already running... And even manage to double their conversion. How he structures a product ladder that goes all the way from cheap entry level products to consulting packages worth over a hundred thousand reais. And a bunch of other stuff too. Like how he spots bottlenecks in his own operation, how he builds his sales team, how he produces ads,

and a whole lot more. And man, this episode ran long. So if you've got an info product, work in direct response, or just want a more solid business instead of relying on one funnel, stick around, because I think you'll really enjoy this chat with Braz. And in case you don't know, this podcast is called Scaling Secrets. We bring on people who've already scaled their offers, who've scaled their businesses... So you at home can walk away with one, two, maybe even three tips and apply them to scale your business too. This podcast was created by VTurb,

which is a video hosting company, but not just any video hosting, it's sales video hosting. So if you've got a sales video, a VSL, a webinar, you need to host it on VTurb, just like the biggest companies in Brazil do, G4 Educação, Novo Mercado, and even some of the biggest companies in the world, like Mindvalley, a company out of Malaysia, and weirdly, they decided to host their videos on VTurb. Why? Because, man, it actually works. And to prove it, there's a video in the description, okay? It's called seven super easy ways to boost your VSL's

conversion. It'll pop up on screen. Just click that little link popping up right there, and you'll go straight to the video and learn how to boost the conversion of your sales video. In that video I talk a bit about VTurb, but you can still apply everything in it without necessarily using VTurb, even though you'll see using VTurb makes it way easier. So look, if you've got a sales video, a VSL, a webinar, click that link in the description, you won't regret it, alright? Now, enough talk, let's get this podcast started. So, here he is, Braz

Cardoso. Man. Welcome aboard. Thanks so much. Welcome to the VTurb podcast. How are you feeling? Amazing. Feeling amazing. You good? Yep, ready for some clips. And hey, listen, let me give you a tip, enjoy this. Because if we play some FIFA later, that smile on your face right now. It's going to disappear. Want to play FIFA later? Obviously. So go ahead and put who won up on screen, okay? Probably going to be me. This trophy back here is going in my bag. On the trip home. Man, the trophy stopped spinning. Did you turn it off,

Gab? Did it just stop on its own? Wow. Anyway, I'll put some batteries in that trophy later. Man. Thanks for saying yes to this, alright? For giving some of your time and your experience here on the VTurb podcast. And folks, for anyone who doesn't know, Braz already recorded a podcast with us, it'll show up on screen. That one was a VSL roundtable. For experts. For experts, exactly. And, uh, ever since then, I... I still didn't really see you as the entrepreneur you are today. Not that I saw you badly before. I mean, I invited you

onto the VTurb podcast, so I already thought you were a solid guy. But now, folks, what happened is he's working with Diandra. It's the person hiding back there. That's the woman over there wearing red and all that. Maybe something will pop up on screen. Can I put her picture up? Something of hers should show up there, folks. So then you built a way more sophisticated company. I mean, you've got a ton of products, a ton of stuff, pulling in multiple seven figures a month. And from what we talked about, you were pulling a seven figure

profit margin. So, man, that's, that's wild, in my opinion, honestly. It's incredible. Because it's a really great business, man. You've got an expert, and all the funnels running for him. And it's hard for people to copy your expert. Even though, sure, people might eventually come after the rest of it. But it's not as easy to copy as, I don't know, a bakery, you know? Something like that. So it's a really solid business. So, man, I brought you on to talk about this, because I think this VSL thing is Turning into a real trend. At least

in the expert info product market right now, in 2026. It started picking up in 2025, but 2026 feels a bit stronger. So basically I wanted us to dig into this whole setup of yours, you know? But like, as I told you, right, we were chatting off camera earlier. Folks, Braz here is kind of eclectic, and actually, here's what I told you was going to be my first question. Because I met him at André Cia's Mastermind, who also has a VTurb podcast, it'll show up on screen. But then I went to a DigiStore event, the nutra

crowd, and he was there too. He knew Poshaw. I was like, wait, hold on, you know Poshaw? Has he been on here? Not yet. Shoutout to Poshaw. So I was sitting there thinking, man, who even is this guy, you know? What does he actually do? So, man, how did you get into these digital circles? Did you come from the launch crowd? The direct response people? Did you start out with VSLs? Tell me a bit about your background so I get it. Anyway, tell me more about where you're from. Okay, good one. It's funny, actually, because.

If I hadn't been expelled from the University of São Paulo, I probably wouldn't be here talking to you, right? I actually got canceled back then, right? This was during the 2020 pandemic. So, just think about that. Everything was shut down, right, it was right in the thick of the pandemic. And I ended up getting expelled. I even showed up on The national news, actually. Quite the story. And in the middle of the pandemic, I found myself broke, straight up bankrupt, with no other plan. I was living with my dad in Guarulhos at the time. And

every plan I'd made for my life just fell apart overnight, you know? How old were you? I was 20. So you're 26 now. Yeah. And the pandemic was in 2020. Yeah. I'm 26. So just think, I had no other plan. Everything I'd built as a plan, becoming an executive, working at some multinational, it all went down the drain. So I found myself in a spot where I really had to think, right? And I spent a few weeks just reflecting. Until a friend of mine called me one day. And he told me about Hotmart, right? Hotmart.

With this idea of working online. I said, man, I don't do scams, I don't do betting, that stuff doesn't work. Back Then those things weren't even around like today. But I don't do scams. And then, two days later, I thought, man, I'm broke, I've got nothing. What am I going to do? So I called him back and said, let's do something, you know? The idea of working four hours a week to make it in seven days, this whole get rich online, passive income idea, I said, let's go. Let's do this. So when I got into

this market, I realized the affiliate space was super hot at the time, right? There were a bunch of big gurus, Tiago Fonseca, for example, and plenty of others too. I ended up buying a course. Paid a hundred and ninety seven reais back then, which was crazy expensive for me. So I started studying, right? Spent a few months at it. Got into the affiliate market and started selling. I remember my first sale as an affiliate happened while I was still training. My commission was nine reais and ninety cents. And when I closed that sale I thought,

man, whoa, I'm still training and already getting money in my account, that's it, I'm going to be a millionaire. Done deal, you know? From here on it's all passive income, let's go. Was that with paid traffic? It was paid traffic through Google, Google Ads. I started with Google Ads, not Meta. I never really liked spreadsheets back then. Bottom of the funnel? Bottom of the funnel, yeah. Back then I didn't even know that, I just saw how it was done and copied it, you know? But it didn't take long, obviously, to realize that whole thing was

a bust, right? I had zero knowledge, zero experience, didn't know anything about traffic or marketing. I was never a marketer back then. So I stopped, right? I realized I'd have to Go a lot deeper to actually get any results. So at the end of 2020, start of 2021, I discovered the launch market. Érico Rocha. I even remember a launch he was running. And out of everything he was studying and showing in that launch, I realized that between traffic, design, video editing, project management, copy was the thing I actually knew how to do. I really liked

writing. And at the time I thought, well, it's the least bad option, I'll just keep doing this, that's it. And that's when I decided to really dig into it, right? But when I actually dug into it, I fell in love with copy. That was early 2020 one. I loved it a lot, because. The whole idea of convincing someone and taking them from point A to point B, Toward whatever idea you want, that made total sense in my head, you know? It was really sexy, really appealing to me. So I dove in headfirst, right? I didn't

have money at the time, so I grabbed a pirated Empiricus course from back then. And since there weren't many people here in Brazil selling copy, and only a handful of relevant players, I started studying a ton of stuff from abroad. The response market out there. I didn't even know what direct response was. So I started studying, executing a ton, testing everything out, until I finally said, man, I'm ready, let's go, this is it. This is what was missing, I'm going to get rich. I went to run a launch, and met two guys in a group

on... Facebook. I brought them together and did the first launch. And it flopped. I thought, well, first launch, it happens, I'll get rich on the next one. Then after that I went and did the second one, and it flopped again. I thought... Érico Rocha talks about needing seven launches before your first one actually works. So that's what's missing. I'll do one more launch. This time it'll work. And then, damn, it went wrong again. That's when I started realizing I needed a bit more of a shortcut, to learn faster, whether that meant working for someone, or

joining some other operation. That's when, heading into 2022... My life and professional mentor, Marcos Duda, gave me an opportunity. He saw potential in me and gave me an opportunity. And I was so ready. Really hungry for results, right at the start of 2022. And he invested a lot in me. So every mastermind, every group, every immersion, anything I could get My hands on, I'd tell him, and he'd get me in there, he'd give me access. So I started studying like crazy, and I hadn't had much success yet, until I decided to write a sales letter

for a college. I can't say which one, contract reasons. And when I wrote that sales letter, it sold thirty million. Guess what I charged, I was just freelancing back then. Guess what I charged 1000... 5000? 2000. 2000 reais, plus a swipe file. That's what I got out of that deal, 2K and a swipe file... And that's when something crazy happened. By then, almost two years had passed since I started out as an affiliate, and I realized two things. First, that everything I'd studied actually worked, it got results, it made money. And second, and this is

something I tell my copywriters a lot when I'm training someone, I started having confidence when I wrote. That made a huge difference for me. So I always say, look, if you're confident when you write... Your campaign's conversion changes because you're more willing to take risks. You're more willing to push your arguments. And that boosts conversion, as long as you've got the technical foundation down... And at Marcos Duda's company, there were some experts doing launches. It was mostly a launch-focused company. And there was Dr. Frederico Porto, my first case, I'll tell you more soon. There was

Rita, a bunch of people in there. I said, look, I've learned a ton, let me run these campaigns with your experts. I remember, this was late 2022, So Dr. Frederico Porto was set to record a VSL in a week, and I had to make one. But since I was in the flow, I said, look, let's do three and record everything at once. I made three VSLs in one week, one every two days. And the first VSL made a million, and a million back then, for expert VSLs, was huge. And the second VSL... Was that in

2022? Late 2022, between October and November. Check this out, folks, late 2022, okay... So Braz was already writing seven-figure VSLs by then. We're in 2026 now, and only now are people catching on that this even exists. That's wild, man Exactly. So, actually, that second VSL, the Neuroproductivity one, my first real case with an expert, that's a nine-figure VSL. And it's still selling to this day. Man... Like I told you, during this podcast, I can interrupt you. So I'm gonna interrupt you now, okay? Because that's my job. My job here is to interrupt people and get

them talking, right guys? So... Man, why do you think that actually happened? Why did it take the info product market so long to start adopting VSLs Back then, when you were at... at that agency, Marcos Duda's agency... Did you notice bias against, like... Why do you think the market... took so long? Do you know why? I don't think the market took long, I think it moves in phases, you know. Some things work better, some work less, but the basics always work. Back then, what was working best, what was really hot, was launches. So it didn't

make sense to test some other kind of sales method at that time, when launches were crushing it and growing exponentially. So people only looked at Launches, the same way they'd only looked at affiliate marketing before that, you know... And obviously, there's a cost to that. If you only focus on one thing and don't diversify your acquisition channels, your operation gets a bit more fragile, let's say. For example, today we still have launches, but we also have VSL, we have a sales team. So... that leaves some gaps of vulnerability for your operation and your team. So

I think it's just about timing. Since one thing was already working, people ended up not looking at other options. And there weren't many similar things back then. Man, I think... in 2022 Late 2022. Yeah. I think... we already had VTurb, man. VTurb already existed. I think it did. As I recall, we used it. So I... I had... I started, I actually started making multiple seven figures back in 2018. And we used VSL. Not with VTurb though. Yeah. We used Vimeo. And then we used Vidalytics. And after that we built VTurb. Wow, you were old school.

That's it. Didn't wanna keep paying, so I thought, let me build my own. But, man... These days... the info product market is super hot for VSLs, so, man, there are a lot of people who are doing this. And a lot of them, Even in the same setup you use And Diandra's too, right. So there's a lot of couples where the guy's the strategist and the woman's the expert. It's wild, honestly, really, really good. And it works out great, man, everybody makes a ton of money. It really works out. It works. And the couple thing, I

dunno, maybe 'cause they're united, same purpose, I dunno, but I know that... It works out great. They make bank. So... So since you were writing VSLs... back then... 2022, 2021... And... it worked. How'd you learn how to do that? And nowadays, what do you think the people watching us at home should do. Maybe the guy's got a woman he's launching for, or maybe someone just Wants to actually learn this funnel. What do you think they should do, in terms of the 80/20, to learn how to write a VSL? Because what you did probably wasn't 80/20.

You probably messed up a ton before learning that this is the right way. Totally. So tell me, what'd you do, and what's the right advice for folks at home. Man, I think the first point is about not settling, you know. I never accepted... Doing basic stuff. I never accepted just doing the same old thing. So I studied a lot, that's the first point. If you don't know the basics of marketing, if you don't understand the minimum about sales and psychology, it's really hard to build a lasting company, to actually turn a profit, to have real

success in your business. So the first stage, the first moment, is refusing to settle. The second point is... Really understanding the market. And that's super important... Because I see a lot of people just copying and pasting funnels. And that's never productive, because you never actually grow. So if you develop a sense for market analysis, understanding what's going on... then you can then apply that to your own company or funnel, especially if you're just starting out. Bring in things the market's already validated. So, to sum it all up, develop a sense for the market, to understand

what's working, and more importantly, understand where you can launch a product that actually appeals to the market, a well-executed product market fit. So I see a lot of people messing up the product, Messing up the offer, selling stuff nobody wants. So that sensitivity is what develops the ability to find market gaps where you can scale faster. So that's the main point, in my opinion. The rest is technical. It's like, writing the VSL, uploading the video, that's technical. But I see that sensitivity is something very few people have these days. And do you think that... Can

that be developed? I've got a theory... About how to do that. I believe that... So, like, that sensitivity you mentioned, if I understood you right, correct me if I'm wrong. But from what I understood... It's knowing what's actually going to sell. What product should someone create that they can actually... Actually manage to make something people want. Yeah. And the way to do that is basically being able to read the market's sophistication level and seeing which mechanisms are being promised out there. And then I need a mechanism that's superior to what people are... offering. And sometimes

not superior in terms of efficiency, but in terms of proof. To make people believe the product's good, and then I can position my product like, look, everyone in the market's talking about thing X, so I can talk about thing X plus one, or thing Y. Yeah, I see it that way too, but especially for someone starting out, they need to understand the basics work, the basics always work. So I see people wanting to over-sophisticate the funnel, or the Offer, or the product, when they haven't even done basic research on what pain point or desire in

the market they can actually solve. If that pain isn't strong enough, if there's not a huge audience for it, it won't scale. Even if you're the best copywriter in the world, or hire the best one. So... Knowing how to identify the market's pain points and desires, and applying that to a solution you already have, that's one of the biggest differentiators. I don't think many people have that awareness, that level of consciousness. So that's the main point. Yeah, really. That's the foundation of everything. If you don't have that... then you don't even... There's not even a

point building a funnel for that. You could have the best copy, but with no audience and no market fit, it just won't work. Yeah. Yeah, but look, just imagine that the folks watching us right now, I mean, they're actually working in a niche that has demand, and, well, they know there's demand because they run product launches, and they already know the thing sells, right? So let's say, they want to become a Braz, or have a Braz in their operation, I mean, someone who can eventually produce those really good VSLs, you know? Do you think there's

any resource you would recommend? For example, there's that book by Evaldo Albuquerque, "The 16-Word Sales Letter". But I don't even consider that a great resource for VSLs yet, because the truth is, man, it teaches copywriting principles, right? So you have to be able To think a little and adapt things. Then there's that course, which is actually about VSLs, Stefan Georgi's RMBC. And funnily enough, guys, the very first podcast I recorded here on VTurb was with Stefan, which is popping up on the screen. So there are those resources out there, but they're in English, right? And

so, I don't know if you have any tips for people to take that step and really ride this VSL wave too. Or if you honestly don't have, 'cause your process was super organic. And up until now, you told me - and I took note of it - that you learned a lot by doing, mostly at Marcos Duda's agency. But, you also mentioned that you studied a lot, right? Yeah, right. Do you think you have something, like a clear path you could give to these guys who want to write VSLs? Yeah, I think repertoire is the

number one thing for building a VSL today. It's one of the pillars I use when I hire a copywriter — any professional, really, but especially someone who's gonna write campaigns for the people watching. So without repertoire, without a basic read on what's working in the market, it's really hard to develop the instinct to write. Because here's the problem. Sometimes people might not have the cash flow to hire an elite copywriter, or the marketing knowledge to write highly technical copy that hits every single stage. But if they have that repertoire, understand what's happening in the market,

and can translate that... I mean, obviously, you need some basic sales knowledge, right? I think that's a really important point. If the person isn't afraid to sell and has a good repertoire, they can build a minimally scalable offer, you know? So repertoire, to me, is one of the main things. For example, every copywriter who joins our company, I tell them straight up: "Man, you're gonna have to study macroeconomics, you're gonna have to study what's happening in the market, what's happening in other markets. You have to study." Why? Because ideas have sex, right? That's a marketing

concept — ideas have sex. So for someone who has absolutely zero copywriting knowledge, if they have repertoire, they have a real chance of carving out a space for themselves in the market. Got it? Yeah. And, man, like, what exactly do you think that repertoire is? I mean, is there a specific resource you consider to be the main one, or is it just something you pick up on during the interview? I break repertoire down into three points, okay? The first part of Repertoire is experience, personal baggage. There's even a movie, I think it's "21", if I'm

not mistaken, where the guy is trying to get into Harvard and to get a full ride scholarship. So, he's asked: "Man, what's the craziest thing that's ever happened in your life?" That was the ultimate question for him to get in. Why? Because if you have personal experience, man, you probably have repertoire, and that matters in any life scenario. So point number one, personal experience. Second point is the ability to study and absorb information happening in real-time, whether that's on a macroeconomic level, like I said, political market trends, or studying technically, you know? They need to

build that foundation to understand things. So when they put all this together, they can generate more ideas, and more ideas breed new ideas, right? That's a whole concept. So that's how I see it. Yeah, right man. Really nice. And from what I understand then, I mean, going back to what you were saying, you started out as an affiliate and then went to work at a product launch agency. But then you started writing VSLs inside that launch agency, right? Man, who was the very first person that steered you in that direction? Was it Marcos who said,

"Bro, let's make VSLs"? Like, why didn't he just put you on launches? look, at the time, I remember there was this immersion called, I think it was Copy Secrets Immersion, something like that, with Denis Bai, Elias Maman, and Derek Melo. I don't know if you ever met those guys. Yeah, I met Denis, I met Elias, but not the third guy. Derek? Yeah, Derek. Man, to me Derek is one of the best copywriters who's ever written in Brazil. You've got to meet him. There's the blind copywriter. blind copywriter? Ahh. That one I know. It's a different

Derek. Derick Carneiro. This other Derick isn't blind. But he's been off the radar, I don't know what happened... Anyway, those guys had been scaling VSLs for a long time, both in Brazil and the US. And the first workshop I went to on cold traffic copy was theirs. back then we were doing lots of launches, and Marcos Duda said: "Man, it's another acquisition channel". And we were always wrestling with that - it's been part of my whole journey. Like, how do I build more than one acquisition channel so my company isn't held hostage by a single

funnel? 'cause a lot of people fall into this trap, right, where once you nail a funnel, you just stick with that one funnel printing money, and great, but What about the company? There's zero predictability. So at that moment, he said, "Let's do this 'cause it'll give us a competitive edge, nobody else is doing it." And we had a bunch of experts there who said, "Let's test it, let's fail, and let's crush it," you know? So Marcos Duda brought the idea? Yeah. Man, what a smart guy, dude. Yeah, it was clever. Shoutout to Marcos. You totally

nailed that one. Yeah, it worked out great. Later on we made mistakes, but we failed really fast, right? And that's the beauty of the direct response marketing. If you have an unvalidated campaign, you can just pause it, restructure it, and try selling it again. So we failed fast and cheap. That's crazy, man. This market is so much better, dude. The product launch guys Really suffer out there, you know? But they also made a ton of money... so at least it was working out really well for you. I think the people with the most cash, real

profit in their pockets, used to be the launch crowd. Now I think the Nutra guys are making a lot of money, but honestly, the true state of the art right now is you guys - the info product crowd who have a VSL on the front-end and a massive ascension funnel on the back-end, which is exactly what you do today, right? Exactly. And then... Yeah... That and a bit more, right? Yeah, at least that's my read on it. A VSL right on the front-end bringing people in. The margins are super high. Right! It gets absolutely insane,

you know? And I mean, the product costs nothing, the margin is high, so it's kind of a Money-printing machine, right? Yeah, one important thing though, the product doesn't have direct costs, but there are indirect costs. People tend to overlook that. "Oh, I'm going to make an info product, there's zero cost." Hold on, there are costs like platform fees, team payroll, and refund rates, those are costs, right? So there are several indirect costs people ignore. This is super important, I see a lot of people messing this up. The margins are higher, 'cause you have no inventory,

you don't have to manufacture anything. But it has costs and people tend to forget that. Yeah, no doubt. Look man, maybe I'll touch on that cost thing later. I don't know yet, I'll think about it, okay? But tell me this, you started writing VSLs over at Marcos Duda's, right? But then, how did that transition happen, you know, Becoming an entrepreneur and all that? Keep going with the story. Alright. When I wrote those VSLs for Porto, I was one of the first guys to hit 100K a day back then, doing it with an expert - of

course, some Nutra people were doing it. And I really started enjoying it. We saw massive potential 'cause few people were doing it. The market works like that: if very few people use a specific sales model, man, you get huge margins 'cause competition is lower. So it's super important to look at that. I started hitting home runs one after another, because few people were doing VSLs. Then I moved into the relationship niche, hit another 100K a day with Rita Rostirolla, I think the offer was 'Gypsy Tricks', that fateful copy, you know? C'mom man, say it. Let's

see if you have the guts. Man, I used to write a lot for the relationship niche. It was where I sold the most, you know? Mostly aimed relationship advice for women. And there was this mechanism. Oh my God, dude. And the mechanism for this VSL, I mean... Wasn't it a bonus? That cowgirl position thing? In fact, it was a deliverable, but acting kind of like a mechanism. And then I thought: "Man, how can I stand out here? How can I find a loophole in the market so I can scale this?" And then it just came

out of nowhere, there was zero technical strategy behind it... was purely repertoire, you know? And well, so I sat there and thought: "Alright, cowgirl position, cool, solid mechanism, but it needs to sound weird." Then I was like, "Damn, Mona Lisa's Cowgirl." That's it, you know? And then when I said that for the first time, everyone was like, "Oh my God, what the hell is that?" It worked, it caught on. So I used it in the copy, obviously. And we scaled that copy hard. I think it was one of the first relationship copies for women —

for men there were already a few — to hit a hundred grand a day back then. There's a... I mean, there are actually several copy frameworks that we use out there today. For instance, you've got the Empiricus frameworks, which are pretty closed off, very focused on the financial market. But dude, this thing of yours, you know, that exact phrase, 'Mona Lisa's Cowgirl' - that really spikes curiosity, and I actually see a lot of influence there from old-school direct mail copywriters, right? Guys who wrote curiosity-driven copy with hooks that provoke you, where you just have to

know what's going on. It's provocative. You have to move, you have to take action. Either you watch it, or you go scratch that itch. And I'll tell you this, man — it's actually pretty easy to find a copywriter who knows a standard copy structure and just follows it. But actually coming up with something like this? Dude, that's something else. And I mean, what you created there could easily be a headline, like, "Hey, discover the Mona Lisa Cowgirl," and turn into a whole sex e-book, you know? You used it as a deliverable, a bonus for the

core product. But man, I think that requires a much more sophisticated copywriter 'Cause it requires this intuition of like, "Oh, this is something curious, it makes sense, it's exactly what the prospect wants, but it has this unique Twist." And when you said Mona Lisa, dude, that just triggers so many impulses in a person's brain, like, "What do you mean, bro? Mona Lisa, like the painting?" Like, damn, dude! Like, what does that even have to do with it? Like, what the hell is that? It's just insanely curious. Yeah, people have to stop and check it out.

Absolutely. And man, do you know how you developed that? You mean - the phrase? I mean, that ability to find these angles that might be real, but at the same time they provoke, they make the person imagine things, and they generate massive curiosity, you know? 'cause that is one of the most powerful copywriting skills you can have. And there's this guy, Gary Bencivenga, whose picture is going to pop up on the screen For you guys - and one exercise he told people to do to get good at copy was to write five bullets every single

day. Which are basically those curiosity-driven sentences, they can also be called fascinations. And I'm going to put a document, right down in the description, which if I'm not mistaken, has 28 types of bullets. And it was created by a legendary copywriter, Clayton Makepeace. So it's going to be down there for you guys to study a bit more, alright? But, like, it doesn't cover what he's talking about here, 'cause it's too advanced. Over there, the bullets are more like: "How to do XYZ," or "Why you shouldn't do yadayada", or "the secret to whatever", and so on.

But yours goes completely beyond that, you know? I don't know if that's even a conscious thing for you, maybe it's not, because I'm seeing that your journey has Been super organic, like: "Oh, I just went in, did the work, and learned as I went." But if you had to transfer that skill to someone else, do you think you'd know how to do it? I mean, is there a way to teach that street smarts, you know? 'cause I think that is what stops a lot of people from writing seven-figure VSLs. They can write a six-figure VSL

if they follow a basic structure - which is already really good, right guys? I mean, it's awesome... But to actually have that edge, to have that gut feeling, that little Braz trick, just pure street smarts, that wisdom from the trenches, I think that's next level, bro. And I've never been able to pass that on to anyone, honestly. I don't know if you're just born with it, or if it's a cognitive thing you develop as you study more copy. So what's your take, man, on having that edge? Man, you said something I completely disagree with: that

this is a Sophisticated level of copy. I don't think it's sophisticated at all, it's the copywriter's obligation to have those ideas. 'Oh, but the copywriter is crushing it, he just doesn't have that level of awareness yet."' Bro, then he's not a copywriter. He's just really good at copying and modeling, but he's not a copywriter. So, for the copywriter, again, it all comes back to repertoire. If he has no repertoire, if he doesn't know those proven bullet structures you mentioned, and he lacks the ability to create new things based on that, then he simply isn't a

copywriter, okay? So, I completely disagree, you know? It's the copywriter's absolute obligation. At our company, I always tell the team: 'Guys, you have to study market swipe files and bullet techniques.' Gary Bencivenga has this document with I don't Know how many bullets, maybe a hundred, if I'm not mistaken. So we study him. Gary Halbert, man, one of the best at bullets and headlines I know. So if you study them and the market, you can piece things together. A copywriter who doesn't know how to create from scratch isn't a copywriter. That just doesn't fly today. In

fact, this might even be controversial, but I see a lot of copywriters ramping up quickly, I see copywriters going from junior to mid-level to senior in just six months. That's impossible. It's literally impossible, I'd bet my life on it. If you lack the basic awareness to create new angles, that's a massive differentiator, especially for info products, where you can't just copy others or hit CTRL C, CTRL V. A copywriter who can't create original stuff shouldn't even put 'copywriter' in their bio, right? Like, some people put "Oh, 8D copywriter" in their bio. Damn, no, there's just

no way, you get me? So I don't think it's a natural gift, it's a trainable skill that every copywriter needs to have. Got it? Yeah. And, man, the main resource you use for that would be the one from Bencivenga? Yeah, I studied those bullets a ton. But how did I study them in practice? I mean, I'd read them whenever I was about to write a campaign, just getting new ideas, you know? For example: 'The number one golden rule for X, Y, Z,' - oh man, I can totally adapt that to my niche. 'The number one

golden rule to drive a guy crazy for you,' or whatever. I just kept tweaking them until I had enough repertoire to create brand new things. Got it? That was basically it. Yeah. Got it, bro, really good stuff. But then what? Like, you wrote the VSLs There, they crushed it, and you started standing out more over at Marcos' agency, right? Yeah, not just at Marcos' agency, okay? 'Cause like, Porto was a massive case study - my first big one, right? I even gave a lecture on that VSL 'cause it was so cool - and still is.

Can you share what was the result for it, man? Nine figures. Over these past few years it hit nine figures. It was incredibly good, and held a Roas of like three at high scale. I honestly didn't even have that awareness back then, I didn't realize it was that much money. A 3 Roas spending 100k a day, such a sick result. Excellent, indeed. Yeah, killer result. Especially for an expert. And all that was back in 2022? Early 2023, man. And then I kept writing campaigns throughout that year, until at the end of the year, an institute

invited me to join—Instituto Experience, you know? They're currently one of the biggest direct response companies in Brazil and in the world. Dude, the team there is incredibly good. Yeah, in Brazil and the world. Those guys are badass. it's a nine-figure a year company. Guys, Gustavo's podcast episode is going to pop up right here on the screen, okay? For anyone who wants to learn more about that company, those guys are extremely disciplined and smart. And we have a bunch of other podcast episodes with people who used to work there too. We have Diogo Gomes - like

two or three episodes. And some other people. But anyway, moving on, you went to work there. And they were looking to expand a... well, looking to expand their direct response division, right? This in 2023? Late '23, yeah, late 2023. Why did you leave Marcos? I didn't. You worked for both? Yeah, man. I just ran them in parallel. And do You think that's a good idea? Would you do that again? "I would definitely do it again. First, it accelerated my learning curve—and obviously, I wasn't hiding it, right? Both guys understood I was running multiple operations. With

the institute, it was purely a timing thing. They were developing their direct response division for experts back then. I already had solid results and experience. The guys were like, 'Let's go,' and we teamed up. It was really cool at the institute 'cause I got there in late '23 and it was heavily focused on experts. Then I caught the transition when they started targeting the US market. We went through that whole phase—failing, validating, testing hypotheses—and really tightened the screws on the operation. I was there through the entire ramp-up phase, which was super cool, learning so much

about the market. And was that when you, you know, really saw this US market, like, Nutra offers and all of that for the first time? Yeah, exactly. I had already been studying it a lot, but I officially stepped into the US market at the institute around mid-2024. There, I understood two extremely important things. First, I learned a ton about funnels, and I realized the US was absolute top tier. Like, major league, you know? I thought major league was what we were doing here. But in the US, if you lack a competitive edge, a hardcore offer,

and a strong product, man, you get eaten alive. Here in Brazil, we have more breathing room, right? Up there, zero room for error. So I learned a ton about funnels and scaling efficiency, which is critical. I also learned a lot about market angles and superstructures, which I think is a Game changer, it creates a massive differentiator, right? Break down those concepts for us. So, like, I always give this example about Lari, who was an expert we had over there. Look, everybody loves traveling, but nobody wants to learn about airline miles. If I come up to

you right now and say, "Dude, I'm going to sell you a course where you'll learn everything about miles, mileage brokers, trading points, and staying up late to buy cheap tickets," would you want it? Oh man, not really... Boring, right? Super dull. Not my cup of tea. Now, what if I told you that I have a course that lets you travel the entire world for pennies. Would you want that? Yeah, man... It's the exact same thing, just a different market angle. So many people make this mistake today. They launch with a terrible angle, and despite a

killer product and excellent copy, it just won't sell. Why? Because it's boring. For example, Diandra: we build personal brands, organic audiences. If I came up to you and said: 'Man, I'm going to teach you everything about the algorithm, content formats, Instagram metrics, hook rates, skip rates for your posts,' would you want it? You'd be like, 'Damn, that's boring.' Now, if I come to you and say: 'João, I'm going to teach you exactly how you can build massive authority on Instagram, be recognized as a true expert, and reach thousands of people so you can sell to

them.' Would you want it? Yeah. see what I mean? So a market angle is crucial for the success of the campaign you're building, you know? It influences the business as a whole. If you nail the right market Angle, if you have a rock-solid angle thesis, man, everything else just happens way more organically. That's the whole point, right? And the superstructure? The superstructure is similar, it's just a bit more complex, but basically... like, it's one of the most powerful sales concepts I've ever seen, okay? A superstructure is when you take something people already believe to be

true, and you give it an entirely new meaning. Like, there was... I still remember an example from India to this day, just so people can really grasp it. In India, people have a lot of kids, right? They have seven, eight kids, it's a massive overpopulation issue, right, because of this huge influx of people being born. And I mean, people usually associate having lots of kids with pure virility—like, the guy has the physical stamina to make babies, right? So, what If I pitch you: 'Man, I'll show you the hidden secret why Indian men have so many

kids.' Do you see what I mean? Can you see the angle? Obviously, that's a bizarre example, but it makes the concept crystal clear. So when you take something that people already have deeply ingrained in their minds and you give it a completely new meaning, your chances of making the sale skyrocket. You get it? That is extremely important. Yeah, you’re basically using a form of proof that the market already accepts as true, and because of that, your message becomes much more believable and credible to the audience. Exactly. I see a lot of people making this mistake

too, and I think it’s really important to talk about it. Sometimes people want to prove that their solution is good, but how do they actually try to prove that? They try to create a Completely new desire in people’s minds, you know, instead of working with a desire that’s already there. So, man, people like, doctors like making money, for example. We were talking about this, right? Doctors like making money. I’m not going to tell a doctor, “You can’t make money. You have to save lives, and that’s all you should care about.” If a doctor wants to

make money, you use that existing desire to help prove your thesis and your solution. You don’t create a new desire, and you don’t fight against what people already want. You know? If you use a desire that people already have and understand to lead them toward your solution, you can create a really strong offer, one that you can scale very aggressively. Yeah, I understand... Man, do you think... actually, where would you say You learned the most throughout your career as a copywriter? Like, what experiences really taught you the most along the way? Was it working on

Marcos’s launch operation, or was it at the institute, where you had more of that direct-response marketing approach, actually selling the offer right there? What do you think shaped you the most throughout your career? Or do you think it was really the combination of those two experiences that made you unique? Definitely, a combination of both, because, when you... When I understood more about direct-response marketing in the United States versus what I needed to build here in Brazil for experts, I realized you have to combine efficiency and scale, like I said, with, I wouldn’t really call it

creativity, but coming up with new ideas and new ways to sell to experts, Which is a little more difficult, right? Because when you’re selling nutraceuticals and things like that, there aren’t that many different directions or angles you can really follow from a copywriting perspective, right? It’s a little more rigid, more structured and restrictive. You can follow them, but the people who don’t, you know, they’re basically just being lazy, so to speak. Yeah, lazy and when you try to move away from what the market is doing, when you have so many people doing the same thing,

if you deviate even a little, you end up losing momentum, right? That’s why people tend to copy so much. I think they copy because of what you said, man, they just keep modeling what’s already working. Because, you know, there’s always some crazy guy who comes up with something first, maybe it’s Stefan, who’s going to show up on the Screen, or Derick too, Derick is really good. But the vast majority just go out there modeling everything like crazy, copying what they see, and then it all becomes very cyclical. In 2023, around that time, I think, right?

When you were working with Marcos, I believe story-based leads were really popular and were being used a lot back then. So much so that I validated a few of them. It was always a story-based lead: “I don’t know who, my life was really bad, I almost died, but… I’m really grateful. If it weren’t for that, I wouldn’t have known about that Himalayan salt trick. The real cause of whatever. And then that kind of stopped, and now, these days, we have a lot of secret-based leads. So today, the market, yeah, everybody has, “The whatever, the trick

to doing this, the whatever method.” And now, basically everyone is using secret-based leads, you know? Even you, sitting there having lunch, right? When you mentioned that Braz made a call for you, did you use a secret-based lead? Because that was what really stuck in your head, right? That whatever factor... The addictive connection, yeah. That’s a secret-based lead. You introduce a secret, then make the argument, and reveal the argument afterward. It’s in that book, Great Leads, guys, which is going to appear on the screen. There are six different types of leads in there. If I remember

correctly, this is lead number four. There’s the lead that generates a solution, a proclamation. So I think people don’t do it because they’re lazy, you know? Then there’s the offer. The guy could even do it, but, damn, I think it’s for another level of awareness and all that. Yeah, a bit more conscious, right? A deeper subject. But, Braz, assuming, man, that the infoproduct market is looking to benefit from the skill you have, because, man, I think you recognize that what you guys have built is really good, right? It’s a great business, it’s something that’s really

solid, and I think the market can really benefit from what you guys know how to do. You make good revenue, you make good profit. Yeah, great business. It’s an excellent business. And a lot of people want to have that business. They want to be able to implement those direct-response marketing flows. But the guy is a business owner, and sometimes he doesn’t know who he should hire or how to do it. He’s kind of like Marcos Duda, he wants to learn how it works and build that department inside his company. If you were going to recommend

someone for him, do you think he should find a person who already comes from that world of capsules, direct-response marketing, and nutraceuticals, and then have that person actually study and learn this whole expert and infoproduct business, understand how it works, and apply those skills in that market Or do you think he should hire a copywriter who comes from the launch world and have that person study VSLs and learn more about that whole Direct-response approach first? I think you’re a little bit of both, right, man? Looking at your background. Because you worked at the institute, and,

man, that institute is no joke. If someone says you didn’t work at a professional direct-response marketing company, that’s just not true, because you worked at one of the most professional companies in the market. So I think the knowledge you gained there, based on everything you’re telling me, really added a lot to your background, you know? And that’s why, if I were going to recommend something to the people watching at home, I think I’d recommend exactly that. Take someone who’s already deep in the world of nutraceuticals and direct-response marketing in the U.S., one of those old-school

direct-response guys, and bring them into the infoproduct space. If you take a copywriter who’s used to doing launches and have them learn this whole VSL approach, it could work. It could, you know, I’m not sure, but in theory, we already have a validated path right in front of us, something that’s been proven to work. So, what do you think about that? The first thing a person needs to understand is what their business goals are and where they want to go. That’s extremely important. So, man, you have to understand that depending on the type of professional

you bring in, there are benefits and drawbacks, you know? So, what do I see? Obviously, I’m not trying to generalize. Someone from the direct-response world tends to be more aggressive and very focused on sales. But, from my perspective, they can be harder to deal with. I’ve seen a lot of really talented people go into direct response, and it’s a market that’s very Driven by greed and ambition. So, the type of person working in this market is, quote-unquote, greedy. They want to make money fast, and it’s a market where a lot of money is being made.

So they need to understand that. If he wants someone who’s a little harder to manage but really talented, or someone who’s easier to manage when you’re thinking about the company, the culture, and the team, or someone who’s a little easier to work with and more stable, but is going to take a little longer to develop through the process, you know? So, man, just looking at it from a pure marketing perspective, who would you prefer? The direct-response copywriter, you know? Yeah, for sure, bro. So yeah, that's the point of the argument. But they are much rarer,

bro. They’re much rarer, but if you’re thinking long-term, now, if you just want to hire someone freelance to build a campaign, man, I’d go with the direct-response copywriter in a heartbeat. But if you want to build a company for the long term, with professionals who align with your culture, you have to think twice. Why? Because the person’s profile sometimes matters more than their technical skills. You know? So I’d really think about that. Do you go with someone who’s a little more stable, who might take a little longer to develop because launches are really difficult, or

someone who’s more of a star, but has a slightly greater ability to generate results, you know? Yeah, the people who are gurus copywriters, right? And nothing against you, by the way, okay? I actually have friends who are guru copywriters too, you know? I have a whole bunch, man. I pretty much only have people like that around me, you know? That’s basically my social circle, it’s pretty much you guys, the big mouths. And they have two things in common, okay? First, they’re my friends. And second, they’re absolutely terrible at FIFA, okay? Because I beat every single

one of them, man. Derick, Tiagão, all of you guys, you’ve all gotten your asses kicked by me, and you know it, okay? And it’s true, you know? The trophy is still right here. That trophy back there behind the... I’ll see you in just a little bit Man, it’s still gonna be here, okay? Just to remind everyone, put up who won. That’s it. Done. Can you imagine if it wasn’t, man? It’s gonna be really good. That would’ve looked pretty bad man. This year, the video editor, Renata, doesn’t even ask me anymore. She said, “So I just

put it in, just confirming, you were the one who won, right? I already know, but I’m just letting you know I put it in, okay? Bye, see ya.” She already sends it like that, she already knows. I mean, actually, she doesn’t send it yet, but she’s starting to. She said that. From now on it will... I wonder if she’s gonna start with this one now. She said, “Who won?” You know Alef, who works with Hanah? He came here to record, and then he played too, right? And then, bam, he talked, talked, talked, and then I

ended up winning. Renata goes, “Who won?” And I said, “Me, obviously.” She goes, “Ah, I knew it.” But anyway, that’s when she started doing it, so I guess she’s already getting the Hang of it. She is paid to praise the boss, obviously. Come on, let's be honest, Renata. Right, Renata? It's the absolute truth. But, man, I’d also go with the direct-response guy, you know? I think someone from the direct-response world has a lot more technical ability, because, I mean, this stuff is really hard, right? If it were actually easy to build an acquisition funnel with

a VSL that works, then the market would have so much more money in it. So many more people would have way more money than they do today, and, honestly, there would be a whole lot more wealthy people out there. And we’re basically creating this kind of money-making machine, you know? It’s honestly a pretty crazy thing. And it generates leads, right? That’s something very few people pay attention To. It generates buyer leads like, damn it’s insane. For you to keep doing that ascension over and over, and increase your profits significantly. So that’s something really valuable. Even

though it’s simple, it’s not something that’s easy to do. It’s very valuable and difficult to execute, even though the concept itself is simple. So I think a direct-response guy is ideal, okay? I don’t think someone who doesn’t know how to do this would have a hard time learning it relatively quickly. I think you need to have a certain instinct for it, a certain feel for what works. They can build the VSL structure, because that part is easy, you can basically just copy what already works. But that Mona Lisa thing, man, it’s just not gonna work.

Coming up with those bullets, that kind of instinct, that little insight, that ability to see the Angle, you know? It’s much easier to get it right with a direct-response copywriter than with a launch copywriter, for sure. Exactly. But, man, tell me, I really want to know how that transition happened from Braz the copywriter to Braz the entrepreneur. I want to understand what changed and what actually happened along the way. Exactly where I stopped in the story, you just read my mind. You know? So what’s the point? When we were working with Duda, right? And then

Diandra came in as a client there, right? I’ll make a long story short, she came in as a client there, and that’s where things started happening. That's Diandra right? Yeah, the one in red. Are you sure that is not the one in yellow? The one in yellow? Yeah. I Don't know. So there aren't two? Is it just this one? Don't, just say no. Just kidding. Yeah, and at the beginning, this was in 2025, right? We spent all of 2024 going through everything, and then in 2025, she came in as a client of Marcos Duda. At

the time, I wasn’t writing much, right? I was mostly taking care of scaling and strategy. And when she came in, Duda came to me and said, “Man, you’re gonna write for her because she’s an important client.” I said, “Are you sure?” He said, “I am.” I said, “Alright, let’s write.” And then something really funny happened in the middle of all that, right? We ended up falling in love. Actually, she fell in love with me, obviously. And then I said, “Oh, she’s already in love with me, and I’m not even doing anything,". I’m just kidding. You

can't even defend yourself, right Diandra? No, not this time. On her podcast, she defends herself. Not here, I’m the one doing the talking, and what I’m saying is true, you know? And then she came in as a client, and the funny thing was, we actually got together before I even wrote her VSL. So there was a little bit of pressure there, because I was thinking, if I write this and it works, great, there’s a lot of potential here. But if I write it and it doesn’t work, she’s gonna think I’m an idiot, and that’s it,

she’s gonna be done with me, and the whole thing could get really awkward between us. So there was this extra pressure that I’d never experienced before, you know? Yeah, and then we launched the VSL, and I created a completely new thesis for the market, right? So much so that pretty much everyone in that market ended up copying it afterward, and that’s totally fine. As long as you don’t copy the Actual lines, you know, don’t copy the lines, because that’s just not cool. At least ask first if you want to use them. And then I nailed

the VSL, it worked really well, and she stayed with Marcos Duda for, I think, around three months. And then something really funny happened. One day, after we’d gotten to know each other better, she came to me and said, “Braz, you make everyone else’s businesses grow. You’ve already generated millions for so many companies, you’ve taken so many businesses to another level. So why don’t you focus on growing your own?” I thought to myself, “What a bastard, right?” That woman basically rented a three-bedroom apartment in my head, and I spent the entire night thinking about what she

said. I kept thinking, “Why not?” You know? Because I already had knowledge of every area of the company, including sales, marketing, the team, and All the different structures involved. When was that, man? It was in March 2025, so it really wasn’t that long ago, you know? You stayed there all that time, so until March of 2021, you were at Marcos Duda's place? Yeah, that's right. Interesting, man. And then, with that three-bedroom apartment still rented in my head, I thought, “Why not?” Right? And she basically threw it right in my face that she wanted to start

a company with me. Up until that point, it really hadn’t made much sense in my head at all. Yeah, it hadn’t really made much sense in my head to do it with her. I said, “Man, it makes sense,” but I’d never thought, “I’m gonna start something with Diandra,” you know? Then some time passed, she made it clear she wanted it to be the two of Us, and I said, “Alright, let’s do it.” And then a month later, things got intense, right? A month after she said that, we started our company. Well, not exactly, right? We

brought the two things together, and I was able to leave with the VSL, the one from Duda that was already validated. So that was extremely important, because we started a company with a validated campaign right from the beginning. That helped us ramp up really fast, right? It was the same copy and all, we started. And then... So the very first thing you did, once you created this company with her, was to go out and get a VSL for the business, one that was already validated and ready to scale. And instead of creating one, you just

took Marcos’s VSL that was already Validated and everything was in place. So for the person watching us here, if they put a company together like this, a good path would be to create a VSL and then ramp up their company, which is what you did, right? Yeah, that would be a good path, okay? Obviously, when you actually create a company, you need to understand which acquisition channels you have available to sell the product you have. VSLs are good, launches are good, sales teams are good. You have to figure out what makes the most sense for

you, what works best with your product, and go for it, you know? In our case, for example, we already had a validated VSL, and we had a validated product. We were obviously gonna start with a VSL. And then we focused on scaling, right? That was a really important point, because my Attention was very scattered across different things. Because I was managing several different projects, I had never been able to focus 100% of my attention on Diandra’s project. When I left, all of my attention was focused on that one project, and we ended up multiplying our

revenue by six, seven times, even though the revenue was already very significant. Why? Because of focus. I see a lot of copywriters making this mistake, right? And it’s not just copywriters, it’s people in general. They spread their focus way too thin. They take a freelance job here, a campaign there, an operation somewhere else, and they spread themselves so thin that they can’t generate exponential results. You know? So focus was extremely important for us to really ramp up our company. And today, after all of that, we have 30 people on the team, and I directly lead

All 30 of those people myself, on a day-to-day basis. Thirty people? Yeah, Actually, it's around thirty-three. And who were the first five people you hired when you were building the team there? There was one person, Jaque, who had already been working with Diandra for a long time, and she’s actually still with the company today. I also hired a copywriter to work directly alongside me, and then we brought in a media buyer as well. And, yeah, that was basically it. With that team, we were able to scale a lot, right? And that’s really cool and really

important, because when you have a validated campaign, especially a direct-response campaign built around a VSL, you can scale very aggressively with a very lean team. You just make ads, refresh the VSL, maybe test a new VSL, take care of the students, and keep scaling as far as you can, because the Product we were selling was an infoproduct, which allowed us to scale that way. Our funnel was based entirely on an infoproduct, it wasn’t a subscription. So we were able to scale really aggressively with a very lean operation. So that’s an extremely positive point of this

type of sale, you know? Absolutely, man, that's awesome. And guys, we could honestly do an entire podcast with Braz just talking about how to create and structure VSLs, and in fact, we actually did that, okay? But it wasn’t just with Braz. It was with two other people as well, in our roundtable about how to make VSLs, which is gonna appear on the screen. So I’m not gonna get technical about how to make VSLs. I want to explore the business as a whole here. But there’s the podcast with Braz, there’s the one with Tiago Filemon, which

is gonna be the second VTurb podcast appearing on screen, and there Are a bunch of other VSL podcasts too. Some of them are gonna show up on the screen. And, man, if you’re in this position thinking, “I’m an expert, I want to implement a VSL funnel,” then follow this path. There are several podcasts here that teach you how to do this and can help you take that very first step, exactly like Braz was talking about. And, man, if you get this step right, you can reach seven figures a month using a single VSL, without needing

a huge team or complicated operation, right? Maybe not profitably. But it’s possible, okay? It doesn’t violate the laws of physics. But it’s much harder to make seven figures in profit using just one VSL. You’ll probably hear Braz talk about another funnel he built soon, probably something pretty crazy. Really? I hope so. You'll have to stay till the end. I think there are two things that are gonna happen. First, you’re gonna talk about this here. And the second one, you already know, right, man? Because you’re gonna get your ass kicked in this one. I’m gonna try

really hard to beat you. I’m gonna post it on all my social media. I’m gonna make a whole series out of it. Dude, it is not going to happen, man. If I lose, I will pretend nothing happened, you know? You can pretend. I’m not gonna tell anyone. I mean, do you see me posting that, man? If I actually posted everything, Instagram would run out of storage. Meta’s servers would probably crash from all the stories I’d be posting about all the people who come here to VTurb and get absolutely destroyed, you know? All right, if you

beat me today, tomorrow we'll train at Ironberg. That won't work out for me. But hey, I'd train with you, bro. Would you? Just to see the guys from Ironberg go crazy, man. You come in and say, “20-kilo plate,” , boom, boom, boom. And, man, somehow the 20-kilo plates just never run out. It usually ends for the others, right? Man, I was looking for the twenty-kilo plate. Oh, it's there with Braz. But it's like that, depending on the size of the gym. Man, weirdly enough, if we get to the end of the podcast, I might actually

talk about that, okay? It was already on my mind, because I wanted to bring that up at some point. But anyway, guys, Braz’s company, the whole ecosystem and operation, started with this VSL funnel, and then you went ahead and started scaling that pretty quickly. Man, tell me, okay? What was your day-to-day Life like during that initial phase? You had a VSL there that you created using your own VSL creation process. You figure out the mechanism, build the argument and the thesis, write the lead, create the offer, put everything together, record it, get it running, and

follow a traffic framework to validate that VSL first and eventually scale it. And there’s a podcast about traffic here too, okay? There’s that one with Saraiva, this one with Pedro Andrade, and the roundtable with Saraiva, Pedro Andrade, and Dairo. There are a ton of podcasts there. Speaking of which, recommend someone in traffic to me later, man, because I need to do more traffic podcasts for the infoproduct crowd. But what was your day-to-day like during that stage? Were you still making ads? Were you putting out a lot of ads? Were you testing more leads? What does

the day-to-day operation look like in that initial stage, when you’re making good money with a VSL, so people at home can understand what they should actually be doing, you know? Yes. I believe there are distinct stages in a company's evolution, right? You have going from zero to one, from one to 10, from 10 to 40... anyway... There are various operational scales. From zero to one, which was our exact stage at the time, it's heavily hands-on, it takes immense sweat equity, and I see so many founders make critical mistakes right here. A guy launches a business,

hires a few people, and says, "Good luck, go execute and generate revenue." It doesn't work like that. So during this foundational phase, you must be extremely hands-on in operations, you see? It's you, the owners, the founders, raw hustle, daily execution. So I was running Media campaigns, building ads, overseeing traffic management, managing video editing, aligning directly with editors—I was handling a massive scope, but for our phase, taking on that heavy lifting was essential, which is why we ramped up so fast, you see? So I wrote all the messaging myself, backed by a dedicated copywriter and a

media buyer. That's when I really learned traffic, you know, like, on the operational level. I only knew strategically. And it required massive execution. I remember that roughly 70% of my time back then was spent purely writing copy, first because we only had five team members, so there was barely anyone to manage at that phase—it was strictly operational execution. And secondly because the core copywriting intelligence of the company still resided with me, right? So I personally wrote 100% of the collateral, Every single ad, and that enabled us to scale significantly faster. Right. And in terms of

production volume back then, do you recall how many ad creative variations you were pushing, or if you were also generating leads? Or was it strictly ads... or only leads... How did you actually manage that backend media scaling of the core offer? And just to help frame your answer, you know? Without trying to bias it? Without trying to bias your response... but totally biasing it anyway, the reason I'm asking you this directly, man, is because I recently spoke at Leandro Ladeira's mastermind, which is Master Fluxo, right? And guys... Master Fluxo? Master Fluxo, yeah. Cool, right? That

funk party...? "Baile dos Fluxos..."? Man, for some reason they picked that name. They have their entry mentorship Called Mentoria Fluxo, and then they have Master Fluxo, which is the high-tier mastermind. And guys, there's a full podcast episode with Leandro Ladeira that will pop up on your screen. And we also recorded one with Ruy Guimarães, his business partner, which will pop up on the screen as well. And right now, this whole topic around VSLs is hyper-trending, right? It's absolute crazy demand, crazy! You have tons of digital info-publishers talking about VSLs and trying to crack into cold-traffic

acquisition the way you guys do, the way a select few do. But most of them don't have a real grasp of what they're actually doing. And there was this woman attending, right? Who asked something that blew my mind that she'd even ask, especially since she was already generating multiple six figures a month. With a VSL offer. Using a VSL funnel. And man, I can't recall your name right now, so if you Happen to be watching this episode—and my apologies if I misquote you slightly—but what she said went something like this: "Look, I ran my VSL

this month and generated, I don't know, 500,000, multiple six figures right there. But then this month revenue dipped slightly, down to around 400,000. So now I'm planning to completely rewrite the entire VSL." I swear she literally said that, you know? And right away I said: "No, are you crazy? What do you mean? Hold on, slow down! You're going to completely rewrite the VSL? Take a deep breath, hold on. Man, test new ad creatives first! Iterate on variables, you know?" So people often lack the operational perspective to realize that iteration must come first. That's precisely why

I'm asking you: what specific playbook did you execute to Manage that VSL scale? Because so many operators assume that the moment revenue fluctuates, they have to rewrite the entire VSL from scratch. And sure, that phase might eventually come, but there are so many levers we can pull beforehand to sustain peak campaign scaling, right? Spot on. The very first concept operators need to grasp is that once an offer is validated, optimizing that existing asset over time is infinitely easier than trying to launch a brand-new campaign from scratch. I noticed this constantly when I first met Diandra

and entered the traditional corporate marketing space—I realized traditional marketers struggled immensely to build a performance acquisition engine like ours. So imagine running a VSL that generates 500,000 per day, driving high-intent students, qualified leads, Customers... Wait, did you just say 500,000 per day? Per day? No, per month! I meant to say per month. Man, 500k a day...? I was about to say, "Damn, you guys definitely need to cover my lunch if that's the case!" No, it didn't hit 500k a day. It came close, but not 500k a day. My absolute daily record was 630k, man. 630k

a day? That's insane. Yeah, there are high-level players pulling 10 million in a day. Well, that definitely pays for a nice steakhouse dinner at the parrilla, right? Something like that... But tell me, it's way easier to optimize an active winner than to write a new campaign. Yeah, what I observed heavily in traditional markets was that our raw Ability to generate demand was infinitely stronger. So people must first understand that when you hold a validated campaign, you must do everything in your power to systematically optimize that asset. Wow, revenue dropped 100k in a month? You don't

instantly draft a brand-new campaign. it's very hard to get a campaign right like that. So step one is understanding that principle. Right after that, you must continuously refresh your ad inventory with new creative hooks. I watched a video recently—I forget who posted it—everyone is talking about VSLs these days, right? He said: "Look, modern VSL companies aren't just VSL companies anymore; they are full-scale ad media production companies." That distinction is critical, because when you deploy multiple touchpoints, when you command user attention across varied angles—because every unique ad targets a specific avatar With a tailored angle, a

distinct take—you systematically unlock brand-new customer acquisitions, see? So when you hold a validated front-end campaign and relentlessly test new entry angles for that offer, you can scale predictability—that's how performance media operates, right? So our media creative volume back then was—at our peak, we were deploying 90 variations per week. It was a massive volume because the core offer was validated. So from there, it was all about optimizing Upsell 1, tweaking Upsell 2, optimizing Upsell 3. And we had an end-to-end creative refresh protocol in place, right? But it required heavy variation testing. Today, the creative strategy we

execute looks slightly different; we don't upload quite as many minor variations due to Andromeda, right? Andromeda fundamentally transformed how consumers engage with content—Andromeda altered how users interact with ads based on shifting behavioral patterns. For viewers who don't know, what exactly is Andromeda? To put it simply, Andromeda functions as an advanced machine-learning intelligence that powers Meta's ad algorithm to optimize campaign delivery, right? So Andromeda continuously updates based on real-time user behavior trends. And where are user behavioral patterns leaning today? Well, with AI tools flooding feeds with increasingly impersonal, generic digital noise, consumers are valuing the exact

opposite. They crave organic proximity, authentic original angles, content that reflects a creator's genuine essence, right? So if you repeatedly publish the exact same creative holding minor tweaks, Andromeda won't optimize performance anywhere near as effectively as when you engineer entirely original ad concepts, right? Therefore, the more unique ad angles—conceptually built completely from scratch—you deploy, the higher your probability of validating a winning ad creative. So today we deploy 15 to 20 entirely original ads every single week, built completely from scratch. Alongside, of course, calculated optimizations of past winning creatives. And we maintain a similar scale because user

behavior patterns evolved dramatically. Solid. Man... Okay... I want you to tell me if you agree or disagree with what I'm about to say, okay? Because I want to leave the audience with a core foundational framework, and I'd love your perspective on it. Fire away. It's an analogy. Can we compare maintaining a high-converting Video Sales Letter funnel... To... routine maintenance on a car? How does a car operate? The high-friction components that endure the most physical wear are naturally the ones that wear out first. So, man... Your tires eventually lose pressure, you have to align the tires,

top off the gas tank... Then, after a bit more wear, you change the oil. And after driving heavily—say 10,000 miles—you perform a complete engine tune-up. So the components subjected to the highest friction and exposure are what you must replace first. And what does that translate to inside a VSL acquisition funnel? What is the single most exposed, high-wear element that fulfills the primary hook function? It's the very first frame of your ad creative. That split-second initial frame—guys, that exact combination of the top text overlay plus the visual hook image—is the highest-friction element, and simply replacing that

single component with a fresh angle can completely reset ad performance. And what's the second layer? The remainder of the ad body, those crucial first three seconds, then the entire video lead, followed by the VSL page headline, the video player autoplay frame—the autoplay background—and then the VSL video lead itself. Do you agree with that breakdown? That the elements enduring the most creative fatigue in a VSL funnel are the most viewed assets, and consequently, managing an offer effectively simply comes down to swapping out those worn-out components? So as an example, the advice we could offer that woman

is: "Are you crazy? Don't rewrite the entire VSL! Swap the initial ad hook, then test new ad creatives, then optimize the landing page headline, then test a new VSL lead. One of those micro-swaps will inevitably restore performance to its peak." Do you agree with that model? Disagree? What's your take? I completely agree, 100%. Again, whoever controls consumer attention today controls the capital flows, right? Where money flows—money naturally flows wherever attention is concentrated. That principle is paramount. And where is consumer attention concentrated online today? Right where your ad creatives pop up on their feeds. So if

you master the mechanics of scaling ad production, leveraging your product's core mechanisms to target fresh audience cohorts through dynamic ad angles, you effectively direct where capital flows because you command where Attention lives. Right, that's the exact framework. So for example, to systematically capture that user attention, we deploy multiple acquisition channels, but we continuously isolate different pain points of our target market, shifting target cohorts as those pain points evolve across social feeds, you see? So I see that this has been a very big differentiator for us to be able to scale, right, this domination of attention,

so to speak, to where people are going. Powerful, man. Also, guys, if you're getting value from this episode—if it gave you a tactical breakthrough to scale your revenue or optimize your operations—check out the screenshot popping up on screen right now. That's a dedicated listener who got huge value from the episode and shared the Link directly into a business WhatsApp group. It costs absolutely nothing to do that. He found it valuable, copied the link, and shared it. And I'm asking you to do the exact same thing right now. Copy the link to this episode and drop

it into your masterminds, your WhatsApp groups, send it to a business partner or founder friend. It might sound super simple, and it truly is 100% free, but doing that helps far more entrepreneurs discover Scaling Secrets, which allows our podcast to grow so I can keep bringing world-class operators to deliver free high-level playbooks to help you scale your business. And like I said, it's 100% free. The only outcome is helping a fellow founder scale, just like this episode is helping you right now. So go ahead, share the link, help the VTurb algorithm push the show, and

I'll Keep bringing top 1% guests to drop value for you, deal? Now let's jump right back into the episode. Man, so initially your company structure revolved around this core VSL, then you hired a dedicated media buyer, a copywriter, and so on. What was the exact next step you took in professionalizing your corporate infrastructure? What moves did you make next? Man, the single most important realization we had was that for the company to hit its next growth stage, relying on just one acquisition channel—which back then was literally our only one, right—relying on a single channel wasn't

going to cut it to build the operational scale, team, and infrastructure we needed. So that's when we made the executive call: let me monetize our existing customer base, right? We had a massive inflow of new buyers. Well, not just buyer volume, but an absolute surge of incoming customers. So we decided we were going to launch a brand new backend offer, right? And out of all the backend models available, the offer that made the most strategic sense due to low overhead, minimal delivery friction, high-ticket margins, and pure simplicity of execution was a high-tier mentorship, right? So

we launched our very first mentorship program through a live webinar. Now, several things went completely sideways during that live stream, but we pushed forward and executed anyway, right? I'm sharing this because people often assume everything is flawless, that scaling is a smooth upward curve, and we never make mistakes, right? I like being transparent here because we completely messed up our event registration push for that stream, you know? You're looking at me like you're dying to ask something. Man.. Listen, every now and then a crazy question pops into my head and it completely shows on my

face, you know? But I don't want to cut your flow off at all. I'm taking notes right here. All right. Got it. man—you were staring at me like, "Bro, what's next?" What he said made me think, "Whoa, that's a killer question, but I can't interrupt him right now. Let him finish his train of thought," you know? Fair enough. But I got super curious about something, so I'm writing it down to ask you right after. Alright. So we executed that live stream against all odds back then, especially since we had a major system failure with our

WhatsApp API automation broadcast. But despite the tech glitch, we packed a massive crowd into the stream, dropped our high-ticket mentorship pitch—priced at 3,000 At the time—and generated over 120 applications. And right then we said: "We just stumbled upon an absolute goldmine here, which is backend upsell monetization," right? So we immediately started professionalizing our internal team to automate this backend ascension process, including product delivery, right? This is a critical framework, because beyond just sales funnel campaigns, we focused heavily on engineering an offer that delivers massive transformation and real ROI for clients without forcing us to trade

away our sanity, right? It's always about building scalable leverage. So we conceptualized the offer, structured the delivery, launched it, and our profit margins exploded. I remember our bottom-line net margin jumped by at least 20% to 30% overall. On the pure net bottom line, that's a massive swing. That's huge, man. Let me throw a question your way. Go right ahead, make yourself at home. Well, I am at home, man! Until I crush you in FIFA, then we'll see... You seriously think you're taking the win? We'll see about that. Man, honestly, coming out here to my studio,

on my podcast right here in Floripa—flex on me... You've got to be kidding me, man! No way, that's not happening! If we were back in São Paulo, I'd let it slide, okay? On that podcast we recorded over there. But on my home turf, brother, overlay the scoreboard graphics right here, man, just so he sees the reality of what's about to go down! Look, I'll consider letting you win, how about that? I'll contemplate that option! Man, it's gonna look terrible if I lose, but there's zero chance I'm losing, bro. Zero chance. But listen, going back to

what you said—first off, I want to Clarify something you mentioned earlier about wanting to build another acquisition channel. The way I define an acquisition channel is a mechanism to pull in brand new cold customers. But then you mentioned that the mentorship Yeah, from what I understood then, you sold it to new people, through your Instagram, or was it an ascension mentorship? ascension mentorship. So it was for the students. Yeah. Oh, I get it now. Yeah, I assumed you guys were already leveraging organic content to sell this mentorship directly to cold audiences outside your buyer ecosystem.

But at that specific point in time, were you guys not running heavy organic content production yet, or were you already executing it heavily since Diandra had been doing it Since her days with Marcos? Look, organic content production has always been embedded deep in our DNA. Always. You know? So when she joined the company, she was already pumping out massive content and generating insane results. What we did was leverage that organic content production engine—which was already a primary acquisition channel, in fact one of our highest-converting channels, as I mentioned before. And once she had that organic

content distribution engine running at scale, we started using it to monetize every single stage of our funnel, see? So we always maximized that leverage. But we did this launch to our existing student base. Why? First, because it was an MVP, so it was a product where we could test a lot of things. So whenever you launch a new offer to your existing buyer base—provided it aligns perfectly with their needs—to test product-market fit, your active customer base is the ultimate proving ground. Why? Because these people already trust you, they've already pulled out their credit cards for

you, and as long as the offer hits the mark, they are far more patient and eager to provide constructive feedback. So this is extremely important when you want to take your product to market and scale. If you test it with your existing audience first, you can improve the product a lot so you can get results when you eventually take it to the open market. So the first launch we did was to our existing student base, okay? Especially since it was a high-ticket product. So we were very careful about that, and it worked out really well.

Got it... Alright. So, let me... Let me map out your core business structure, to make sure I'm tracking correctly, okay? Okay. You had Diandra constantly publishing organic content, and on the other side, you had your direct response funnel driving cold traffic to your VSL. But the primary benefit of the organic content back then was essentially boosting cold conversion rates on the VSL, since you weren't necessarily pitching offers directly on her profile. You created content, which built massive social proof on her Instagram. So when you ran cold ads using her handle, prospects would check her profile

and see: "Oh, she's a legit authority, she's real, she drops high-value insights. If I buy something from her and it's trash, I can easily call her out right here in her comments section." Uh-huh. We were driving massive revenue through organic sales as well. Oh, on organic too. We used to joke that we were running internal sales competitions. I'd run a high-converting story sequence while she dropped feed content to see who could generate more cash flow, right? One day I ran an emergency Story campaign and pulled in 10,000 purely selling front-end low-ticket offers. Strictly using VSL

funnels. And she pulled in 11,000. I was like, "Damn it!" But she dropped a viral reel linked with ManyChat automations, you know? While I sold through manual Story pushes—it was insanely close. I think she barely edged me out on that one. Let me tell you something, man. If that ever happened to me, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. I'd grind until I overtook you, man! I'd stay up working non-stop—losing is simply not in my vocabulary, man! But you get the dynamic, right? I said: "Look, I could easily drop three more Stories right now

and take the win, but I'll let her have this victory, man!" So in the back of my mind, I had to convince myself that I technically won, you know? In my own head, I won! Are you kidding me? Unbelievable! I wouldn't have slept a wink... This is how a relationship ends. Instantly, man! No doubt about it. Yeah, but I get it, man. And do you feel that her organic content engine was—well, it was obviously a massive unfair advantage for scaling the VSL, right? Without a shadow of a doubt, it accelerated things. But do you think

those direct organic sales were a major revenue driver in the beginning, or was the cold-traffic VSL doing 90% of the heavy lifting? Yeah, organic has always been a massive revenue driver. In my view, organic content distribution is currently one of the single most powerful customer acquisition channels on the entire internet, period. Instagram nowadays, in particular, represents one of the largest concentrations of human attention on the planet. So if you master—again, coming back to the exact same core framework, right? By the end of this podcast, viewers will realize that when you dominate user attention where it

naturally lives and build seamless conversion mechanics to monetize that attention, man, you literally control where the capital flows, you see? So we were consistently generating organic sales. It was never just, "Oh, this only serves to build warm brand awareness for the VSL." Absolutely not! While we ran fewer organic campaigns compared to our relentless ad variations, organic generated revenue that rivaled the VSL on many days. Why? Because with organic traffic, first of all, you don't have Meta's ad costs, right? That obviously makes a big difference in your margins. And second, You're not paying Meta's costs. Zero

ad cost. Zero, pure profit! So once you cover basic variable fulfillment, it's pure net margin, real cash in the bank, you know? Never before in human history—if you step back and think about it—never before has an operator had the power to record a quick, free video on a smartphone, publish it, and instantly reach millions of targeted prospects to pitch a solution. Yeah, humans only recently developed the ability to broadcast something to multiple people at once. It's pure madness, absolutely insane. That's why the digital world is so wildly polarized right now, everyone's at each other's throats.

Yeah, there are pros and cons, right? But people who know how to take advantage of it to make money are making a lot of money. Thank God for that, man. Listen... Do you feel you guys possessed—or still possess—a specific operational edge, when it comes to organic content? that the rest of the market lacks? Because I feel almost everyone watching us understands basic content creation today. Or at least... even if they aren't experts, they have a general framework: "Okay, I'll build a posting schedule, use this format, execute X and Y." But I definitely don't view you

guys as beginners in this game. I view you as top-tier operators, maybe even advanced elites. Honestly, I can't even evaluate it fully, you know? My thing isn't really making content. I just do this podcast, that's pretty much it. It's the only thing I know how to do. Hosting one of the biggest business podcasts in The country! Yeah, but I stick strictly to my one lane, you know? And man, you're living proof of how it goes. I just walk in here, turn on the mic, and talk. That's it. Pure freestyle, that's it. At most, we had

that quick pre-interview discovery call, right? Yeah, super brief, but we did it. Yeah. Exactly, but... That’s intentional, because I don’t want to know what I’m going to say, because otherwise I can’t be surprised. And if we scripted something like this, it would feel weird. Yeah, it’s very... the important thing is to be natural and capture reality, you know? I think that makes me... Ask better questions and stuff. I think that’s actually one of your differentiators, you know? It’s more of a Natural flow. I hope so, who knows! In theory, at least! I even banter directly

with our live studio audience here, you know? An audience of one person. Yeah... Maybe.. If we'd caught her doing that gesture from earlier, on camera, right? Behind the scenes. Behind the scenes. She's loosening up here, and pretty soon she'll be right there getting interviewed. But, man... What do you think... people should be doing with their content? I mean... What do you think you do differently that... Something that really boosted your business? That got you into this whole seven-figure profit world? The main thing people need to understand is that once you master the basics of Building

demand and attention, marketing, in its purest form, you can control where that attention goes. So the biggest differentiator, in my view, when it comes to our content, is that our content has... copy. Look at that. Exactly. And obviously, there are other differentiators too, like the positioning structure, the formats we use, but the way we build content with copy, barely anyone in the market does that. I can count them on one hand, seriously, because I know all our competitors. But what is that, man? What does it mean to make content with copy? We have a structure

that has... more proof elements, more promise. What does that actually mean in practice? For someone to create content online, or rather, to create an ad online, they need to go through certain persuasion structures to take the person from point A to point B. Very few people think this way when they create content, because that's actually a Marketing mindset, something people who understand marketing tend to have. So what we did was take people through the entire awareness funnel and channel them toward the specific action we want them to take. Let me give you an example: a

lot of people today divide their content based on positioning. So you have attraction content, then connection content, and then sales content... Man, that's cool when you're going from 40 to 100 at the company level. But when you're going from zero to 10, in content and positioning, you have to scale your image to as many people as possible. And that's exactly what we do. We took a content structure that runs through every level of awareness, from the top of the funnel to the bottom, and it drives the person to take action at the end. So basically,

content is an ad. You see? Because it's built entirely With copy, seven stages in each part, eight stages throughout the whole piece. Eight stages, and people have to go through each one to reach millions of people, right? Our accuracy is honestly insane, whether we're building for other people or for ourselves. And man... And this content machine... Its... It's, it's a machine that... Did it get more sophisticated over time? Or did you... Or did you decide to build other machines... that feed your business? Let me give you an example, okay? You could have your content routine,

like, "I'll post seven reel a week here and some stories too, and that's it, that's my content input." And once you have that set up, it's done. Then you can build other machines that do other things. So there's the acquisition machine with the VSL you built... Then an ascension machine, probably that mentoring thing you mentioned, and you go in and improve that. Maybe there are even other machines, other funnels, other things to build. I built my content funnel once, and I never scaled it in volume. I've done one episode a week for the last three

years. Actually, next month, on the third, we hit three years of the VTurb podcast... So I only do one podcast a week, for three years, and I don't plan to push that input further, doing more than one a week. That's my strategy, and I grow volume in other... other parts of the business, where I believe I get a better return on investment. So in your business then, right, in your ecosystem, in Diandra's monetization, you've got several machines, from what I'm understanding, right? There's this Content machine, there's the acquisition machine, which is the VSL, and there's

the ascension machine, which maybe has a few mechanisms, this mentoring thing, maybe more, I don't know yet, we'll get into that. But this content machine, man... Did you sophisticate it? Was it one of the machines you focused on most, or not so much? Referring, obviously, to the start of your operation. Because I don't know. And what I'd recommend to everyone watching is, I'd tell them to have a content machine at an okay level, At a volume that the person considers "okay" for themselves... But I wouldn’t recommend focusing on that. I’d recommend focusing on the video

sales letter direct-response marketing machine, with content serving as an amplifier for that whole system. That's what I see working best, based on the interviews I do with people. And obviously, of course I'd say that, because, damn, I have a VSL product, so I want people doing more VSLs. But, funnily enough, it's also what I see working best. Maybe if I interviewed people who are stronger in content, they'd say the opposite, "No, I'd sophisticate the content machine way more." But I hear this a lot, "I don't want to be a slave to content anymore." I'll make

some content here to keep my brand alive... but I'll build other machines that bring in revenue and scale my business. So that's why I'm asking of the machines you built... How much did you sophisticate that content machine... to get to your current seven-figure margin level? Did it improve? Were the levers basically the direct-response marketing levers? Tell me a little bit about that. I think people, even today, for some reason, don't see Instagram as an acquisition channel. They see it as a storefront. And that's one of the biggest mistakes business owners make today. Meanwhile, if you

look at the biggest entrepreneurs in the world, I'll even bring up names from Brazil, like Alfredo, Thales, the G4 crowd, in general, Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, everyone's going to social media. Because they understand social media creates two really important effects for a business. The first is direct acquisition. If you have a team watching your DMs... Your comments... and they're able to sell To those people, that's a lot of demand, like I said, because you shoot one video, reach millions of people, and if you've got a team to monetize it, you will. The second thing that

ads don’t give you is awareness, right? Brand awareness. You have the power to, uh, show up in front of people consistently and create whatever perception you want them to have of you, in the way you want them to see your brand. So if you want to be seen as more professional, as someone who’s an authority in your field, you can create that perception, as long as your positioning is done well. So this idea that Instagram is just a storefront isn’t really true for most professionals, you know? And the second really important point, about the sophistication

you mentioned, right? You said you never actually increased VTurb's volume, but over time, You kept improving your script, you kept improving your acquisition channel, and how you monetized that incoming base of audience that kept showing up. And that's exactly why VTurb kept growing and growing, you see? So, tightening those screws along the way, that's also a form of sophistication in its own right. What's really not correct is thinking that volume automatically equals sophistication. Because people think, man, the more volume I put out there, the more results I'm going to get. Definitely not, that's just not

how it works, honestly. You see, if you keep pushing out volume with the wrong strategy, you're just going to keep doing the wrong thing, over and over again. Now, if you post with quality, tightening a few screws here and there and improving along the way, you can actually hit your business goal through that content, in this case, Instagram, or In your specific case, VTurb. See? So once people really understand that Instagram is a source of acquisition, it completely shifts the whole game. Today we make a lot of money just from Instagram alone, so we really

tightened the screws on Diandra's positioning, so people would see her, would perceive her, as an authority for the audience we're going after. And we built out sales channels to monetize those people properly. So yeah, we kept tightening the screws along the way too, little by little. Yeah, right. Right? So, for example, one thing that kept happening a lot, and we're actually solving this with AI now, is that sometimes we'd put out a piece of content that reached millions of people, but our sales team, the SDRs mainly, just couldn't keep up, couldn't respond to everyone, there

were simply too many. So We went and built an AI solution so we wouldn't keep losing those leads. That was one of the ways we sophisticated things and managed to make more money through content, you know what I mean? So, yeah, that's basically it. Interesting, man. And what would you recommend... actually, let me ask it this way... do you think there are different levels to this whole content thing, and to the screw tightening that you did? Do you think you... you managed to make those big leaps in content performance over these last few years? You

said it was around 2025, right? So that's, what, a year, a year and some months, that you've been... actively working on this project. I don't know if it was exactly that, you know? Was there some kind of new content format you tried out, or something that just started clicking way harder than What you were doing back at the start? In my case here with VTurb, man, we'd just drop the podcast episode and... I think, without a doubt, at the very beginning, when we did that roundtable-style podcast, there wasn't even a discovery call involved. I'd just

show up with a topic I more or less wanted to talk about, and go straight to asking our audience. That's the podcast that's about to pop up on screen, right? I've mentioned it before, but it'll show up again. But I did have this "screw tightening" moment, with the discovery call. Basically, I ask a few little questions beforehand that help me guide the episode a lot better. And I think guest selection got a lot better too, honestly. Makes a Huge difference. You know Diary of a CEO? I think you're familiar with it. Yeah, we take inspiration

from it. Yeah, they actually built an algorithm internally, I was reading an article about them, and they built this algorithm that stops them from booking the most famous guests. Based on their audience's behavior patterns, they end up booking completely random people who happen to have relevant topics. So they post the same amount of content, but they're constantly refining their communication to attract more qualified people, you know? Yeah, they actually have a whole job opening for that... it's called a guest booker. Yeah... It's literally the job title, "guest booker." Look at that, Nicole, how interesting is

that, the guy's entire job is to research what people are talking about right now. Very interesting, yeah. Yeah, I found that really interesting too. So basically, that's what we changed, we sophisticated that part as well. And, referring back to your content sophistication, Do you think there was something specific you did, something you remember, that was a huge differentiator, something really significant... Something that maybe helped Diandra take that next step, or even a third step forward... Something you can point to that you started doing, that just started working really well, with the content itself. I don't

know if you've got one. If not, that's totally fine, I'm just asking. I don't know, honestly, you tell me. Yeah, there is one, actually. You guys are the experts here. I'm just The guy who asks the questions. What we started to notice is that the actual idea behind your content attracts a very specific type of audience. Who would've thought, right, that the idea of your content would end up bringing in such a specific audience? But most people still don't grasp that, and it's actually a really important level of sophistication to bring to your content. Today,

for instance, I'd say there are three main pillars for a content idea to be relevant enough to actually scale. First, hot topics, right? So, things that are happening right now, war, elections, stuff like that. When you make content around something like that, you get a bit more reach potential built in. Second, universal pain points. In basically any niche you're in, you can speak to most people, let's say 90 percent, you can talk about kids, about Relationships, about health. You can always make that kind of connection work. Because these are universal pain points that work no

matter the niche you're in, you know? And last but not least, niche-specific hot topics. Take health and weight loss, for example. What's trending right now, specifically in weight loss and health? Mounjaro, right? So the odds of nailing a piece of content about Mounjaro are pretty high these days. Once you actually figure out these ideas, you can define exactly which audience you're going to reach. So, for example, if we want to attract doctors to our profile, we talk about health-related topics, you see? So the real trick here, the big takeaway, is that you can control who

you attract to your profile just through the idea behind your content. That's extremely important, because we once made a piece of content about GTA, for example, about the GTA launch. Even though it was Diandra talking, with a pretty serious tone, positioned toward an older audience, it still ended up attracting kids. GTA? Really? Yeah, we made a piece of content about the GTA launch, right? About the way they were rolling it out, generating all that buzz in the market. And even though it turned out to be really well made content, it only brought in a younger

crowd to the profile, based on the actual metrics. When we made a piece about health, only doctors showed up, basically. So from the very idea stage of the content, we're able to bring in a specific audience. And obviously, depending on your product's price and your overall offer, if you can Control the type of audience you attract to your profile, it's basically a lead machine, you know? Today, if you were paying for a doctor lead, a medical lead with real buying potential, how much do you think that would cost you? Something like 800 reais to get

one Marketing Qualified Lead. See? It's expensive, right? So once you really understand that, you can, again, control attention. That's exactly what we did here, we sophisticated our content to the point of understanding that, based on what we were posting, we attracted the type of audience that was most likely to actually buy from us. Interesting, really interesting. Well, what's my strategy here, right? I do this podcast, once a week, every week... And I bring in experts, which is basically you guys, and then I sit down and talk with you. And this turns into a value-packed episode,

and somewhere in the middle of it, I run the VTurb ad, which has probably already popped up for you guys watching, right? And I also tell people to go check out this video that's about to show up on screen, where I explain how to actually optimize a VSL. And somewhere in the middle of that video, I show off VTurb, because, funnily enough, it's honestly the easiest way to do it. So it's kind of like I "sell without really selling." Totally. So I do all that here on YouTube. And that, all on its own, is a

form of acquisition, because YouTube delivers it Organically to people. But then I take that content and I push it over to Instagram too. And then on Instagram, if you check it out, you’ll see that we have a ton of Reels that we post. And we post a lot, there's over two thousand posts sitting there on Instagram alone. And on top of that... We put out 42 shorts a week. Right here on YouTube. That's basically our production volume. And then the shorts deliver content to people, they send folks over to the podcast. People watch the podcast,

and inside it there's a VTurb ad running. Brand recognition, people see the VTurb ad, they go watch that video, which is what's about to show up on screen. That way people really understand the difference with VTurb, and they end up subscribing. Honestly, I can't fully measure if it's working, I genuinely don't know. There's a link right down below, everyone, 15% off for the first two months. If you want to subscribe through that link, I'd really appreciate it. And if you don't want to, that's fine too. You should really subscribe. But it's because people do end

up subscribing anyway. Yeah. They will end up subscribing. If you're smart about it, you're going to subscribe. But, that link in the description, it's good because it's actually tracked properly. So I can roughly tell how many leads I'm picking up from it, you know? Because pretty much everything else is organic. And then, over on Instagram, we push out tons of reels. I share... the posts that people send us, like pictures of the plaques they’ve received and things like that... And every once in a while our team throws in some memes there too, you know? Some

funny stuff, and that ends up getting a lot of views, and it grows the audience... That right there is basically my whole strategy. So, yeah... Right. But if you really think about it, what I just said a minute ago applies to you just as much. Like, who are VTurb's potential subscribers today? Probably freelancers, independent professionals, who are trying to break into the direct response market, because they want to stop selling their hours and start Scaling vertically. So freelance professionals. Then, who am I actually going to bring onto the podcast? People that those freelance professionals already

know, and admire, and look up to. Not just marketing people either, necessarily. So bring on, say, a medical marketing expert, for example. That medical marketing expert is going to attract other doctors, people who could potentially become clients down the line. So it's really the same idea underneath it all. The idea behind your content, and the actual topic of that content, brings in a very specific audience. You know? So you can control exactly who ends up showing up here. You see? Yeah, honestly, I actively do that on purpose, so much so that I brought you guys

on here, because... even though I genuinely like you, man, we're friends And all, I'm still not just bringing you on here for no reason, you know what I mean? I brought you guys on because you're doing something that a lot of people out there want to do, having that whole info-product structure, back-end offers and everything, which is really, really booming in the market right now. So, I'm sort of controlling the action here, by having you on. I've done podcasts on tons of other topics before, but that's more or less the underlying idea. I don't really

try to go create a brand new market. I try to teach people how to make VSLs first and foremost. And I've got a low-ticket course, it's about to pop up on screen, so I've definitely tried doing that myself. And every now and then I still do a little bit of it, but it's honestly not really my main focus anymore. My focus is Letting other people go create the market, and then I bring on the guys who've already got that figured out. So, people who teach how to make VSLs. And that, honestly, works out really well.

Thinking about it, I create markets too. With this podcast, we're kind of creating a market in our own way, because it's going to end up helping someone out there. But, man, that right there, that's VTurb, okay? And now, let's talk about you guys. About an ecosystem built around... info products. With a seven-figure margin, running steadily on a permanent basis, working out well, staying profitable... What do you think this whole content system should actually look like, that people should be applying? Do you think someone should be posting a certain number of reels per week, or something

along those lines... Should the person really focus on just pumping Out a ton of reels to drive traffic to the profile, and then use stories to funnel people over to the link in the bio... Do you have a sense of what an MVP content strategy would look like, one that the people watching us should be applying? And... I don't know if this is exactly it, but something that really boosts the VSL, or uses it in some smart way. Walk me through how you guys actually pull that off. Well, the first thing a person really needs

to understand is that content has the potential to grow your business, and even double the size of your business, depending on how you actually post it. So content is a genuinely strong acquisition channel. Why am I bringing this up? Because if people go into a channel like Instagram treating it like some kind of hobby, it's just not going to work out. There's really no way it works. You'll just get swallowed up, because the Content space today is extremely, extremely sophisticated. So that's the very first mindset shift a person needs to make. And from there... They've

really got to think a lot more about strategy, where they want to go, what kind of audience they want to attract, rather than just obsessing over volume. Again, if someone puts out a ton of content with the wrong strategy behind it, there's just no way it works out. It's really hard, you know? So how should they actually be thinking about it? What market is the person actually in, right? Or, what niche do they really want to work in. What kind of audience do you actually want to attract... because that's going to matter a lot, especially

from the middle to the end of your content. And also, what do they actually want to sell, you know? And based on all that... Well, I'll send over a market research to help understand Those three ideas I mentioned earlier. So that would be, universal pain points, niche-specific pain points, and hot topics. And then you look at what's actually working, and build out the script strategy from there. Again, the script strategy itself is a bit more complex than what I'm laying out right now, but with a genuinely good idea, a person has real room to grow.

And what about posting frequency, then? It would be about how much the person can record with quality. If you can record just one, but with solid market research behind it, then just do one. Once a week? Or once a day? Once a week. And what I've noticed is that... Do you think that’s an initial volume we can use to get things off the ground, so that the person can... generate enough initial traction for the business? It’s important To start posting, because there’s a huge barrier there. People don’t post, you know? They either post the wrong

way or they don’t post at all, and then they blame Instagram, the marketing agency, or the social media manager they hired. But the person just doesn’t have that drive they need to actually get started, you know? That’s extremely important. So, the moment somebody understands that the most they can post with real quality is what's actually gonna get them where they want to go, they start understanding their business a little better and taking action, you know? And honestly, I'm not a fan of posting every single day, especially for someone who's just starting out. I'm not a

fan of boosting every piece of content. Wait, even stories? Shouldn't you post them every day? No. For beginners, there's no Point in posting stories 'cause nobody's watching, right? People want to be influencers, posting a ton of stories, but what's the point? Nobody's landing on your profile, so who are you posting for? Who told you that's relevant? It's not. Obviously, when you have a lot of traffic hitting your profile, and you have a stories strategy to connect and sell to those people, it makes total sense. But it's just vanity when you're starting out, you know? So

that's the first point. People need to understand that if they post content every day in a completely wrong way, it's gonna fail. If they post those seven-second clips, you know? Like, "read the caption" - that makes no sense either. It brings in an extremely unqualified audience, 'cause You're pulling in people who just want quick content, and later on you can't sell to them. So, to sum it up, I'd say most guru strategies out there today are irrelevant for building a real business on Instagram. If you want to go viral, cool. If you want the algorithm

to push your video, fine. But I'm talking to people who actually wanna sell, right? The professionals we speak to want a real business on Instagram. It makes zero sense to post daily without a strategy, or to post short-form content. In fact, our videos run from a minute and a half to two minutes, sometimes even more. Why? 'cause it goes through every stage of the copy to convince that person to take an action at the end of my video. Got it? Yeah, got it, man. Are you sure? I can explain it a different way if you

want. Nah, I'm good. I'm thinking what question I'm gonna ask next. So, here's what I understood, okay? when you left Marcos, you took Diandra's assets — 'cause she already had her Instagram going and all that. That Instagram wasn't Marcos's, it was already Diandra's. It was Diandra's Instagram — and she's right there, guys, hiding off camera. And you're loving this, huh? Damn, congrats! Usually people would've gone home by now. You doing okay over there? All good. You cool? Awesome. If anything's bothering you, if you want to wrap up the podcast, just say the word... Alright. So,

anyway, she was making all that content, and then you came in with the VSL, and it started selling like crazy while the content was amplifying it even more, right? So it sounds like you guys were already selling organically from day One. And like, that VSL was always sitting in the link in bio, making sales there too, correct? Yeah. Can you tell me, at the end of the month, what percentage was coming from cold traffic VSL versus organic content? I want the folks at home to understand how significant that is. If you remember, of course. I'd

say it was about 70% cold traffic, okay? And about 30% warm traffic. And this is extremely important, because if you have a traffic team, if you understand marketing a bit more and you start building an audience on Instagram, that audience becomes an engagement audience for the traffic side, right? And again, it's a much more qualified audience, because they spend more time with you on Instagram. so the back-end conversion rate is way better. If you have a traffic team and a content team creating that strategic content I Just mentioned, you can sell directly, but also indirectly

through the audience you build, right? We do this all the time. But there's this stigma, like, the DR guys saying, 'No, I only sell to cold traffic.' And then the organic guys are like, 'No, my business is strictly organic.' But, why not do both? When you run both, you dominate acquisition channels and own people's attention, right? Man, I really think this business model of yours is unique, okay? Because there aren't that many people using this exact structure to net seven figures a month in the info-product space, bro. like, actually, there are some people, but the

ones who do are usually the old-school crowd doing launches, like Érico Rocha and those guys. But among the new wave building these modern businesses, like, these ecosystems - then the setup I usually see looks more or less Like yours. It's a couple. And the woman, is the influencer and - the expert. I mean, she's the one on Instagram, handling the content side, right? Oh man, "Influencer" is a tricky word. Yeah, not influencer. She's the talent, shows her face, and it works great. She's the face, right? Exactly. I mean, she's usually the one building the connection

there, and the guy is the strategist behind the scenes. That tends to work really well. And they all produce content. Skipping content just isn't a thing. Off the top of my head, from past guests on this podcast, there's Elida—she'll pop up on screen. There was also Gimena - she and Juan run something similar. And there's a bunch more, okay? There's Ana Neves and André—they'll pop up on Screen too. So there's a whole crowd out there following this formula, and they all produce content. So look how interesting this content thing is, man. If you're watching us

right now and you're a co-producer, and you just grab an expert to scale a VSL—like the direct response crowd does, right? Usually, they don't even use an expert. I mean, usually they just slap an avatar or a random face on it and let it rip. But if you're doing that, then you're leaving all this upside on the table, you know? And that upside — you just said it's 30% of your revenue, not counting the funnel itself, and not counting the whole compounding effect, which you can't even measure, 'cause it's something that pays off way later.

Dude, that's super interesting. So, look man, once you've actually got that VSL working and you've got all That content being produced, like, really building up the brand, from what I understand here, people could buy straight through Instagram and also through the cold traffic VSL, correct? Obviously they were the exact same offer. And that got you to a certain revenue number, right? Did you manage to hit seven figures with just that setup? Yeah, multiple seven. Multiple seven? That is great stuff, dude. And when exactly was it that you felt the need to... I mean, actually, you

mentioned you created that mentorship program, right, for your existing student base. So, like, that was the second offer you built in the business, correct? Yeah. And that one came about because you thought: man, I wanna monetize these people, I'm already building this base, so it's worth selling them one more product. And then, you invited everyone to a live and Ran the pitch, right? Yeah, kind of a webinar. A webinar, made the initial sale there, right? Yeah. Pitched an application, then the sales team reached out. Sales team aka Braz and Diandra, right? We called most of

them, 'cause zero to one, man, that's pure founder work. It's blood, sweat, you're on the front lines converting. Higher conversion too, since the owners are selling. And we sold a lot on that first launch. It was great. Very cool, man. So, does that offer still exist today? The mentorship, yeah. We reworked it and it's better now, a bit more systemized, right — we used AI to boost our delivery. Like, it depends less on Braz and Diandra now, and it's driving more results, you know? And we kept optimizing it little by little until it got to

the level we see today. Awesome, man.and like, nowadays, do You actually have any other offers? Yeah, man, I do. Yeah, sweet, but let's talk about that mentorship first, okay? How do you actually sell that thing today... I mean, this mentorship. Alright. I sell it two ways. We don't call it a mentorship anymore, okay? We call it an acceleration program. Why? Because "mentorship" implied you'd literally get mentoring sessions with Diandra and Braz, and that's not exactly what we offer. We sell a system so she can position herself on Instagram, get her content in front of thousands,

and sell to them. Make sense? So it's an acceleration program, not a mentorship. That helped a lot of people, including on the delivery side. Why? Because with a Mentorship, the assumption is that the mentor is there to mentor you, right? And that really helped us keep a high NPS on the program, because people came in with the right expectations, you know? So we sell it two ways. The first one is ascension. So people come in through the front-end product, right? They get tagged by our lead score, which is basically a data analysis that reads the

profile of the audience. And based on that profile, there are several tiers I categorize, to see what that person's revenue is and whether they have the potential to buy that product. Whether they're qualified. Exactly. Then sales reaches out, books the call, and closes. That's one channel, right? So, based on what I understood here—correct me if I'm wrong—most people call that an application funnel. Basically, once the guy gets inside the members area, he fills out a quick Typeform. If he hits your criteria—like, 'I fit this specific profile, I've got this much to invest,' blah, blah, blah—then

boom. Your sales team goes right in and grabs him, right? Yeah, exactly. That's one of the main channels, right? Because with the funnel scaling up, we get really high accuracy on the people coming in, you know? And this is a super important point, actually. 'Cause if you don't have solid data on the people entering your funnel, you're leaving a lot of money on the table—like, serious cash. Because it's all data, right? Based on the data you have, you can just steer those people wherever you want them to go. So if I wanna sell, let's say,

a three hundred bucks product, or sell her a new business, or become her business partner—with data I can pull it off. I see a lot of people getting this wrong, especially in direct response. They focus on scaling the front end, with no data, no ascension, no idea what's next. And That makes a funnel, but not a company, right? So if you actually want a real company, the first thing people overlook is the data they collect on their own customers. That's extremely important. Awesome, man. For instance we can apply that application funnel you mentioned, right? Yes,

exactly. That's one of the channels. The other channel we have is organic. So we make content in that format I described, we call in qualified people, and the sales team books the call. We've got other channels too, like referrals. So we have several acquisition channels feeding the sales team, which is a fairly big team. Right. And on the organic side, do you also have a social seller? I mean, a guy who sits there answering DMs and all that? Yeah. So he grabs it and— ah, got it. Like, the guy can buy through the link in

bio, right? So guys, look how interesting this is. You build a VSL, and scale it on cold traffic, but you also drop it in the link in bio and produce content, 'cause then you can scale organically too. And I mean, people will buy eventually, right? So as people flow through the system—actually, Diandra uses this great word, 'flow,' which I hadn't heard in ages. There is steady-state flow and transient flow. You know what that is? Fluid mechanics. Anyway, I ran a whole lot of flow calculations back in the day, man. It's some pretty boring stuff. But

yeah, anyway, I got a little sidetracked there. But getting back on track, it's really worth applying that strategy: just put the link in your bio and produce content. Then, once you've actually built the mentorship—which today you call an acceleration program, but back then we Just called a mentorship—there are basically two ways to sell it. First, right inside the Instagram DMs with a social seller closing the deal, and then also through that application funnel, right? Yeah. Those are the two main ones today, and the easiest to implement. No doubt about it, man. And which one do

you think is the most powerful? I mean, which one should the people at home focus on? Because you've already sophisticated this thing, right? You've got two channels selling that acceleration program. But the guy who's just starting out is only gonna start with one. Do you think he should focus more on the application funnel, or more on the social selling side? Look man, I think it depends a lot on his business model, okay? So if the person has a more robust business model, with higher priced products, in my view, Starting with a sales team through Instagram

works better. And you may ask: why? 'cause you start faster. You grab a phone, you record a video — with the right structure, obviously — and you start bringing in qualified people. Then with the sales team, you book the call and close those higher ticket products, right? Now: Braz, what about cheaper products? Well, with a leaner setup and no sales team, I'd start with a VSL. Just a solid idea solving a real problem. 'cause, I mean, when they come through that VSL, it's like they've already swiped their card with you once. So the odds of

them ascending later are way higher, you know? And I see people messing this up all the time, because they make the sale and that's it, done, you know? But thinking as a company, like, thinking long term, The more you get someone to spend inside your structure, the more you can pay per customer and the bigger your market dominance. And the people battling to pay less per customer will get left behind, got it? Absolutely. So we do this a lot here. Like, you know how Meta's been really unstable lately, right? And sometimes traffic isn't performing great,

but I say: push it anyway, go hard on the traffic. 'cause I know I'm gonna make money on the back end either way, you know? So that gives me a much better shot at selling to the people I want, instead of my competitor getting them, right? Yeah, for sure. so, man, this whole application funnel thing - I get how it works. It's basically, I mean, please correct me if I'm wrong here, okay? 'Cause you guys are the smart ones here, I'm just asking, alright? But from What I understood about the application funnel, the guy goes

in, buys through the VSL, then he lands in the members area and gets a survey, which could come by email or could be the first video inside the members area, right? Or it could be WhatsApp. Or through the official API too. Or a Thank you page. Sure. Like, there are all kinds of mechanisms to get that survey over to the person. And in the survey you're basically asking, "hey, are you qualified to buy the more expensive product?" Obviously you don't phrase it like that, right? You ask stuff like: hey, what do you do? How much

money? Do you want faster results or not? There's a qualification script you can put together for that. It's not rocket science. Cool, got it and that makes sense. Then the sales Rep reaches out, like, 'hey, wanna accelerate? Let's jump on a call.' You run the sales process, boom, sold. Yeah. Ring the bell. That's it. Deal closed, sales notification and money in the bank. Beautiful. But man, looking at Instagram for a second, right? Here's exactly what I picture: Diandra's over there just producing all this content, and all that. there's the link in bio, where the VSL

lives, and the person can click, watch the VSL and eventually buy. Or buy straight from a list of the products you have, 'cause there's the VSL, but the acceleration program is in the link in bio too. Oh, so it's already there? But it's a passive route, it depends on whether the person clicks that link. Right. But when they click on that, where do they go? To that same form. Oh, to the form, got it, man. Like, "Apply here for the acceleration program," yadayada, you know? Oh, okay. I thought people were sending DMs and, you know.

That too. There are several touchpoints, right? The first one is the link in bio, Which is the most passive, 'cause you depend on the person clicking on it. Then there's the case where, when you produce content consistently, people actively start wanting more complete programs with you, more personalized ones. So people message Diandra directly too. And we run sales campaigns where people actively reach out to us. So a story sequence driving to an application, for example, or a piece of content at the end that also has a ManyChat trigger. So you build the whole content structure,

and at the end you say: hey, if you have a company with up to five people and you wanna scale your audience — I'm simplifying here — comment the word audience and I'll send it to you. ManyChat fires, the person fills it out, and it lands with the sales team too, right? And then there are some scrappier ways, let's put it that way. Like, sometimes Someone comments — say Diandra posts a photo with me, for example — and a woman, for instance, a doctor, goes and comments "wow, amazing, congrats to the couple." Then Diandra checks

her profile, sees she's also married, and strikes up a conversation based on her comment. They just chat until it naturally leads to pitching the acceleration program. That's a much higher level of sophistication, alright? An outbound sale. Yeah. It's more sophisticated, but it's another touchpoint. So, you've got a VSL scaling, generating leads and profit on the back end, scaling hard, building awareness. You've got a content sequence over here bringing in a lot of people too, and you've got a good product in the middle, right? Assuming, obviously, that you have a good product. Once you get that

wheel spinning, man, you've got tons of leads, tons of revenue, a ton of sales efficiency especially, and you start pulling away from the market, you know? That's why I call it maximum exposure marketing — you're showing up at as many touchpoints as possible for that person. Yeah, got it, man. Hey, hold on, let me interrupt the podcast for a sec. If you could pick anyone in the digital market to sit here on the Scaling Secrets podcast and get interviewed by me, who would it be? Who's the person you'd want here, opening up their numbers, their

strategies, the behind the scenes of their operation? If you know who that person is, we built a quick form, it's in the description below, so you can send us your pick. It takes about a minute to fill out. You drop the person's name in there, we'll study them, see how we can fit them in, and eventually, if it makes sense, we'll bring that person onto the podcast, do the interview, and create that content for you at home. So if there's someone you think is worth interviewing, head to The description, drop their name, and that helps

us figure out what kind of content is worth creating for you, cool? Alright, let's get back to the podcast. And man, like, how did you build that little operation? Because you started with one SDR, and today you've got a head of sales handling it, you've got a closer. Like, how did that sales operation actually evolved? I mean, the one for the mentorship that became the acceleration program, you know? I wanna understand it so the people at home can get some insights on how to apply this setup and start selling high ticket, right? Because, man, you'd

agree with me that your business would be a completely different thing without this. I mean, you'd only have a VSL. And what would probably happen, guys? Like, he'd probably still have high revenue, he'd still be doing multiple seven figures, but I don't think he'd be profiting Nearly as much, right? Yeah. Because here's the thing, guys — what's the actual secret here? At least, what do I see? The secret is doing exactly what Braz is doing, and I don't mean the VSL. It's putting these pieces together, building this business model, with the pillars we're talking about.

You've got the content, you've got the VSL bringing in new people, and you've got this thing on the back end, the acceleration program, which holds most of the profit — not most of the revenue, most of the profit. Because at the end of the day, that's the whole game, right? It's all about profit. So, man, how can people start building that little sales operation? Because it's a whole different beast, right? It's not about content, or VSLs, or the recording involved. Like, it's conversation, it's energy—it's a different kind of Operation, requiring a different kind of professional.

G4, for example - they're excellent at this. I've been to their office, and man. Madness, right? Like, total psychos - that's exactly how a sales team should be. They've got flags all over the office, and those guys are closing deals, I mean, like... But that's how it's gotta be, man. I mean, they make a ton of noise. Sales teams thrive on that. Is your team like that? What's it like, man? Tell me how you built that. First thing people need to understand is that this is way more than a little operation. I know you framed

it as "little" to encourage people, but if someone comes in thinking it's just a little operation, they'll barely get any results, 'cause they're coming in with the wrong mindset, right?So the main thing you have to understand is: okay, I want a new acquisition channel with a new Sales model, so I need to map out a plan to structure it. Like, how much do I want to make? What's my target margin? 'cause usually people don't even know what's left over. They don't track expenses to calculate their true margin, which, at the end of the day, is

what actually matters, right? So, based on how much I want to make and where I want the business to go, that's when I start thinking about the team. But from zero to one, like I told you, it was just me, Diandra, and one setter booking calls. We were the ones actually closing, right? So, I actually recommend that you do this, because nobody understands your business better than the founder, the person who owns it. In this case, you would recommend that the founder himself be the closer for the business. Yeah, from zero to one, absolutely. From

zero, I don’t recommend hiring a closer. I don’t recommend hiring an SDR. Because there’s a ramp-up process, a maturation process for that person in your operation. So there’s nobody better to sell your product than you are. I’d start by booking sales, testing the offer, testing the product, and really going all in. At this point, it’s much more about hard work and execution than inspiration. “Braz, I made my first sales, and it’s actually working.” Great, now I can start thinking about bringing in a few more people. I’d think about bringing in at least one SDR. An

SDR can book quite a few calls, depending on the amount of volume you have coming in. What would you consider a reasonable number of calls? Man, for the first stage, I think around four or five calls a day is a really good Level, okay? That’s a solid number for an SDR, right? If you have one or two people handling the sales side, I think having one SDR is more than enough for the first stage of the operation. If you have one or two people handling the sales, plus this SDR, do you think that’s a good

setup to start with? Yeah, if you have other sales structures in place. Now, if you depend only on the sales team, you’re obviously gonna have to put more pressure on it. But again, everything depends on the business model you built and where you’re trying to go. I’m basically giving you the MVP of a sales team here, you know? That was the flow. Did you actually build those SDR processes yourself? Did you go on Claude and say, “Man, give me a basic process so I can get started,” and then start digging into the root causes of

the business from first principles, figuring Things out and improving the process from there? Or how did you actually create that whole process? Did you get consulting from someone who already knew how to do this and had experience building these kinds of processes? Yeah, we have this mindset in the company that money buys time, energy, and resources. So once you’re able to build up cash and establish a solid cash base, it doesn’t really make sense to go out and test a completely new acquisition channel entirely on your own without any outside support or expertise, you know?

It’s much easier to hire some kind of expertise, whether that’s a consulting firm, advisory support, or whatever it may be, so you can avoid unnecessary mistakes, and improve your results along the way. We hired a consulting firm, they looked at our business, and then we started building everything together. Obviously, it’s a consulting firm, not a miracle, Okay? So you need the SDR structure, the SDR playbook, the closer playbook, and all of those processes get built and refined as you keep selling, right? So the more you sell, the more people you hire, and where you ultimately

want to go depends a lot on the type of team you’re building and the people you’re bringing into the operation, you know? So it’s extremely important to have that clarity around your business goals. For example, in our case, we started with one SDR, then went to two, and today we have three, okay? Three or four, but one of them just left, so we have three right now. We hired closers gradually as well, but what do I always recommend to people? You have to understand that a sales team might be the most difficult team to manage

in the entire company. Why? Exactly because of what you said. You need a bunch of crazy people beating the Drum, wanting to hit their targets, absolute psychos, and you have to keep those people in check. No, you can’t hire someone who’s too nice, someone who’s just average, like a hot dog water, because that person is probably not going to be able to apply the pressure you need to hit the targets and drive the sales team forward. Hot dog water? That whole mediocre, middle-of-the-road thing isn’t fun at all, you know? So that's it. Great. And that’s

what a sales team is all about, you have to keep beating the drum and build a really strong culture. But there is, so, from what I’m understanding, you hired a consulting firm to help you figure out and solve that part of the business. But what was it? Was it a consulting firm? You can say who it was, right? Was it a another firm? It was Full Sales, the folks from Full Sales. Yeah, from Matutinho. Guys, there’s a podcast with Matheus, okay? It’s gonna show up on the screen. It was one of the craziest podcasts I’ve

ever recorded. Yeah? That guy really loves to talk, right? He’s got a whole lot to say. Man, how long did Matheus talk for? Four and a half hours? He loves it. Put that on the screen. Man, I’ve never seen someone talk that much. I even told him, “Come on man, stop,” but he broke the record. He keeps going and going. He’s basically a walking glossary, right? Yeah, he’s really good, man. He’s awesome. Matheus helps a lot of people in the digital space, especially when it comes to the sales side, right? He actually goes in and

implements things. It’s really great. But one really important thing is that we built a large, well-structured sales team only once we already had predictable revenue coming in from these higher-ticket products. We don’t have just one of them, okay? We launched at least three higher-ticket products, okay? And once we started having predictable revenue and really understood where we wanted to go, we started putting all the pieces together. So, for example, if we want to increase our margin and sell to that many people, we need to hire the right people to make those numbers happen. So it’s

basically reverse engineering the hiring process based on where you want the business to go. It’s not just hiring people for the sake of hiring, because that would be crazy, you know? So, again, if you don’t know exactly how much revenue you’re making, what your Margins look like, when it’s the right time to grow, and how much room you have to grow, man, don’t grow yet, you know? At least understand how far you want to take the business. That’s my view. I understand. And, man... just how effective was that whole process? Without a doubt, Matheus’s consulting

is excellent, because he’s really good at what he does, okay, guys? Otherwise, I wouldn’t have invited him onto the podcast in the first place, and I definitely wouldn’t have brought him to talk about this topic. Yeah, but without a doubt, you had to make things much more sophisticated. You probably thought, “Man, I’m figuring out what actually works for your specific business model and operation.” You know? Did you end up changing a lot of the processes, especially the closing process, and refining everything until The business really started paying for itself and the entire operation was finally

running smoothly on its own? Did it take a long time for the whole thing to really get going and start working properly? Or did you basically get everything ready, plug it all in, and have the operation start working right away? Yeah, I always say that we had a lot of demand because we had generated a huge amount of demand, so people were coming in in very large numbers all the time. So that made up for some of the initial inefficiency of a team that was still being built, because we had so much volume, you know?

Like I told you, there was a lot of demand from paid traffic, a lot of organic demand, and people were coming in from everywhere. And when you have a lot of water filling your bathtub and the drain is small, it’s normal to have some inefficiencies, right? You’re Gonna have some losses along the way. So we compensated for the inefficiency of the initial sales team with a high volume of leads, you know? But obviously, a sales team, or really any team that doesn’t continuously adapt and evolve over time, is a team that’s ultimately destined to fail.

You know? So even today, we constantly bring this up in our weekly meetings with the team. What do we need to improve? What did we do last week that actually generated results? And where are we trying to go based on the goal we’ve set for the business? So you adjust the SDR process, adjust the closer process, adjust the process for booking calls so people actually show up for them. There are several different areas where, if you don’t have that knowledge, you’re gonna be a little Slower when it comes to making decisions. You know? Today, we

have a sales leader, but every single week we go through everything check by check, looking at those goals and improvements so we can keep ramping up and strengthening our sales team. It’s a war. Very good, man. So today, from what I understand, you said you have several higher-ticket products. But essentially, the way you guys make money is: you have content production, which builds the brand, and you have your VSL, where you bring in new buyers and new followers at no direct cost, in theory, because you’re selling a product while paying Facebook to bring that traffic

into the business and reach more potential buyers. And ideally, I think you’re already making a profit on that initial sale, right? And then you also have those higher-ticket products, with the sales Team really crushing it and driving those sales. So that increases your margin and ultimately your profit at the end of the month. Do you have automated ways of handling that monetization, like webinars or things along those lines, or do you basically do everything through calls, with the sales team handling that entire process directly? Depending on the product’s price point, you can structure how you’re

going to sell that product, right? So, how does our sales funnel actually work? Today, we have a front-end that’s scaling aggressively, and our average ticket is really high. Our front-end average ticket is almost five hundred reais. With the whole funnel structure. So that gives us a strong foundation to pay more for the customer and capture more of the market. Second, we have what we call a method product, based on that sequence from DotCom Secrets, you know? The Solution product, the method product, and then the next one. So a method product has a mid-range price point,

okay? Today, our product is three thousand reais, and we use that product to sell through a weekly webinar. It’s a webinar that happens every single week, basically automated, and we monetize the people who are coming in here. So you guys have a webinar too? We run the automated webinar every week for the people coming in. So the person comes in “You’re gonna take this class here, and at the end, there’ll be an opportunity for you to take the next step.” Webinar, three thousand reais, the person comes in. And that alone already increases the margin a

lot, right? By increasing the margin, again, I can pay more for the customer at the front end. Dan Kennedy even talks about this. Wow, Dan Kennedy, huh? The kid did his homework. He's the real deal. Ask the copywriters today in direct response if They know who Dan Kennedy is. Dan Kennedy is the real deal right? They only know how to model. So yeah, because whoever can pay more for the customer is the one who dominates the market, right? So, alright, we have the weekly ascension program with a webinar, and our offer is really strong. After

that, we have the acceleration program, which is the next step. And then our next product, which is our most expensive product, costs more than one hundred thousand reais. It’s a product where we build and develop the person’s personal brand, creating that brand around the person and their positioning. So we build the entire positioning, we build the entire content strategy, and we handle all of that for the person. It’s a completely done-for-you product, you know? This product, just to give you an idea, we have quite a few clients in this Program, and we have a 98%

success rate. So what does that actually mean in practice, and how does that work for the client? Ninety-eight percent of our clients hit the goal in their very first month. So what’s our promise, right? Basically, one million views during the period when we deliver the solution. Usually, they hit that goal within one month. Some clients even reach one million followers in three months. Because we have a very clear differentiator, which is using copy, that funnel I told you about, to scale people’s image. And then there are a lot of people coming in, a lot of

demand. So we have a really good success rate with this product. And then we keep moving people up, right? That’s the point. Because creating products just for the sake of creating them, like, “Man, I’m gonna create the next product because people asked for it, Because some guy told me to,” is the worst way to build products. Now, if you can understand what the next step is that a person needs within your product line, you can create a much smoother and more natural ascension, right? And now we’re moving into technology too. I can’t talk about this

yet, so, stay tuned for the next chapter, but people will know when we enter that market. Good, man. I definitely recommend it. Technology is good. Less video, man. Video handles the payments, and payments are the real secret. In digital, at least, if you analyze the entire chain here, you’ll see that the person making the most money is the guy processing the payments. Except for Meta, of course, right? Like, you sold your product for one hundred reais. Man, if it’s cold traffic, fifty reais of that goes to Meta. Then the payment processor gets paid ten reais,

and YouTube gets around fifty Cents to one real, depending on the customer. But payments alone, excluding Meta, are the best business model, because they take 10% of the guy’s revenue, sometimes even more. There’s the fee, of course, so it’s technically less than 10%, but then you have the interest you charge through the platform, early payouts, all these different things, plus the float from the money sitting there. So that business model is pretty insane. It’s a killer business model, but because there are a lot of big competitors, the sharks, like we were talking about earlier today,

maybe it’s not necessarily the best business model for that particular person, you know? So that’s a really important point to understand. Yeah, there’s founder-market fit, right? There’s the founder fit too. Exactly. So the cool Thing... But it’s hard to compete with payments, man. It’s hard because, that business is so good. The money business is the best business there is, right? Yeah. Except for the whole banking thing, which Diane mentioned, she said, “Guys, I should get into payments and build a bank,” or something like that. I didn’t even remember that. And if you’re interested, let me

know in the comments so I know whether I should build this solution. You forgot to say that, man. Yeah, guys, if anyone wants to put some money into V Bank, go ahead, okay? V Bank? That’s a strong name. V Bank, man, that’s strong. Hold on. It is not Nubank. It's V Bank. That's it, man, in a few months, you guys just wait, okay? Easy credit. Yeah, but the interest will be high, guys. It has to be low interest to attract customers. No, but I want to make money. The idea is to sell at a higher

price. Yeah, but, man, I get it. And you said that the way to build this product line isn’t necessarily by listening to customers and following everything they ask for, 100%. We have to know how to differentiate what’s actually worth pursuing from what isn’t, and understand which opportunities make sense for the business and which ones we should simply ignore. And you also said you used Russell Brunson’s method to think through how you could create these other products. From what I understand, that method is basically keeping the same promise, while changing the level of delivery and the

way you actually deliver the solution to the customer, depending on how much Support and involvement the customer needs throughout the process. So in the beginning, for example, the promise is: you’re going to go viral online. First, it’s a course where the person does the work themselves. Then you can sell a group coaching program where the work is done together with the person, side by side throughout the process. And eventually, I do the work entirely for the person, which is the most expensive product of all. Yeah, from what I understand, that’s basically how you created your

product line, okay? Man, can you give me some more details here? What didn’t I ask you? What does everyone watching at home really need to understand when it comes to creating a product line that’s actually profitable, works consistently, and makes sense for the business over the long term, while also creating a clear path for customers to move forward? What do people usually get wrong, and what do you think you did well? If I can talk a little bit about that. Okay, cool. The biggest mistake people make when creating products today is trying to deliver too

much, including things people don’t actually need, you know? So what happens? When people sell higher-ticket products, they want to give their customers absolutely everything. And what kind of problem does that create? It creates frustration, because the person can’t absorb everything you’re trying to teach them, so they end up getting frustrated. If they get frustrated, they don’t get results from the product, they don’t recommend that product, and your long-term solution basically dies right there, you know? So the main improvement we made was figuring out what people actually want, and then offering that to them. “Ah, but

I can offer other solutions.” Don’t. Why? Because it’s really difficult, right? If I go into a coaching program and tell the person I’m going to teach them everything they need to know, everything that I know, man, they’re gonna get lost, they’re gonna freeze, and they’re not gonna want to actually do anything. So that was one of the main lessons we learned. When we created our first coaching program, we wanted to do everything for the person. We wanted to teach them how to create content, build a funnel, and basically teach them how to do everything themselves.

But people were getting frustrated. Why? Because they get stuck. So once you understand exactly what the person needs and offer that specific solution to them, you can build a product that lasts much longer. And the second Point is about higher-ticket products, right? Much more important than the result you generate, and this is a huge insight, okay? Much more important than the result itself is how you demonstrate that the result is actually being achieved. Let me give you an example: if I come to you and make a promise that you’re going to go viral online and

build a strong personal brand, you go out there and actually achieve that result, and then you can clearly show that it happened. Okay, nothing changes. Six months go by, you get the result, great. Now, if I come to you every single month and show you what improvements you’ve made month by month, basically showing you the progress you’re making, the chances of you getting more excited about the product, referring it to more people, and staying satisfied with a high NPS are much higher. And that makes The product much more sustainable over time, right? A good product

isn’t just a product that makes you money. That’s the mindset of a funnel guy who only cares about making money, you know? A good product, when you think about it from a company perspective, is a product that has longevity and is so good that people recommend it and keep renewing. That’s where the money is, you know? Obviously, you make money from that monetization and from getting people’s attention, for sure, but you make a lot more money when people keep renewing those products, you know? Those were the two main lessons that I see a lot of

people getting wrong. I get it, man. Essentially, we shouldn’t try to deliver too much. We have to understand exactly what the person needs and then deliver that specific thing to them, in a way that doesn’t overwhelm them or make it harder for them to absorb The solution. And one way to make sure they’re aware that they’re constantly progressing is simply to tell them, “Man, look, this happened, this happened, this happened,” and show them the progress they’ve been making along the way. Just the fact that you speak about it already greatly increases the person's level of

awareness regarding your solution. The power of this is absurd, okay? Increases the perception of success. That’s huge. Even if they’re not having a ton of success, too. Because if the person isn’t executing very well and isn’t getting that much of a result, but they can clearly see that we’re putting in the effort and doing everything we can to help them get results, that alone can become a strong reason for them to renew. That’s extremely important, okay? It took us a long time to understand that, we paid a high price to learn that lesson, and once

We understood it, it completely changed our game. Very good. But all of this really starts with that point you made about understanding what they actually need, right? And how do you actually understand what they need? Is it through an interview where you bring the person in and ask them questions about what they need? There’s a book I’d recommend if you guys want to learn more about this. It’s called "The Mom Test," and it basically helps you discover what features you could add to your software by conducting interviews with customers. So it’s more of a book

focused on the technology market, because there’s a specific way you need to approach a conversation with a customer so they actually give you the information you’re looking for during those interviews. But I wanted to know how you actually do it, man, or how you did it, so you didn’t Fall into that trap of figuring out what the person really needs so you can create products that are genuinely good, without making that mistake you guys talked about, where you try to do a bunch of different things, end up overwhelming the person with too much information, and

eventually end up hurting the product itself. There are two things you need to do to create a winning higher-ticket product, in my view, okay? The first one, and believe it or not, this still exists today, is actually talking directly to your customer and understanding what they have to say. Right? So, no, it’s not about analyzing things in the cloud, and it’s not about doing data analysis or looking at cohorts. No, you’re gonna sit your ass down, get on a call with your customer, and understand what their biggest difficulties and challenges are. This still exists, okay,

guys? It’s not some outdated thing from the days of the Greeks and Trojans, nothing like that. So, sit your ass down, talk to your customer, and understand what their needs are, right? And the second point is, you need to have a really strong market analysis. So you have to be, this is where I really put a lot of value on direct response, because they’re absolute funnel nerds, right? They’re people who really live and breathe funnels. So you have to get into your competitors funnels. That’s not wrong, it’s not a crime, it’s completely normal in business.

People and companies often model solutions from other companies, and there’s nothing wrong with that. In any market, because it’s relatively easy to copy. Instagram went there and took Snapchat's stories. Totally, the TikTok reels and that is fine, you Know? This isn’t just a digital thing, guys. It’s a real-world thing. Yeah, there’s a world outside of digital. I don’t know if you guys know that, but it exists. It’s not a myth. Okay? And when you manage to get into your competitors' funnels and actually understand what they're selling, it starts making sense. Because those competitors probably invested

a ton of resources and energy into improving their products. So they're operating at a higher level of accuracy. So you take that, talk to your clients, understand what's working in the market, and put those two things together. That way you nail the exact solution they need, right? You take the best of both worlds, build your solution—obviously based on your expertise—and create a solid product. One that solves a very Specific pain point or desire. Because trying to solve multiple is just shooting yourself in the foot, for sure. No doubt about it, man. But... Like, you mentioned

earlier that you have several products, right? You said you have products selling for a hundred grand? Over a hundred. Over a hundred. Damn. And did you learn that from the guys over at Full Sales? Were they the ones who taught you how to run that whole thing? We actually had the products before that. We only hired them for the sales side. But why did we have those products? Man, again: market analysis. When we stopped to look at where the market was, we saw that people were tired of generic solutions, right? Obviously, the info-product and education

markets scaled, generic solutions spiked, and then plateau. So right now—especially with AI making everything even more Generic—consumers just want highly personalized solutions. They want to feel the essence, they want that human contact, they crave that connection. So they want high-proximity products, stuff that's more tailor-made, highly personalized, right? By analyzing that market shift, we realized we needed to move into a more custom space, beyond just standard info-products. That's when we jumped into the mentorship and done-for-you space, offering actual high-end services. So by analyzing market and consumer trends, we built two products with strong product-market fit, completely

nailing our thesis, you know? Now we sell both of them really well. But again, it all comes down to market timing. Yeah. That's interesting. I keep wondering, man, if I should do something like that over at VTurb, you know? Because there's a ton of guys like you who run VSLs, and I could just build an internal VTurb team, get a copywriter we'd train up to help VTurb users scale their offers. I actually think that would work really well, you know? Something along those lines. The thing is, I have absolutely no idea how to pull that

off. Like, what to deliver, how much to charge, or even how to sell it. I actually tried doing this in the past, but I sold it way too cheap. I used to charge like six grand a month for a retainer. And my team back then, was Tiago Filemon and Lucas Rêgo, okay? Just to give you an idea. I mean, those kids were basically the Neymar and Messi of copy, you know? All that for six grand a month. It was insane, right? And what was my core promise? Basically that I'd run at least one AB test

per month, maybe more, but at least one, that would easily Beat your control multiple times over. So that split test alone was worth way more than the six grand. And then we'd actually deliver like one winner a week. Just massive hits. A guy making a hundred grand suddenly hits two hundred. Then another guy started around 150, and went straight to over a million. That's crazy! Yeah, man. So why did you kill that product? Because Tiago and Lucas are super hyped, right? So they went off to do their own things. The fame got to their heads.

Just kidding. No, man, those guys... I mean, they honestly should, right? Because they are insanely good. Man, Tiago is crazy good - like, he did like a billion in revenue over at BH. So I was basically charging way too little, and it just wasn't really worth it for me, you know? But at the same time, I couldn't charge much more because my sales process wasn't that solid. I couldn't get people to really see the value. But I still have that idea today. Like, hiring a copywriter, plugging them in, and helping VTurb clients scale up. I

could charge for it. And plus, it helps the client scale, meaning they'll upgrade their software plan, and end up paying me more on the backend too. Exactly. My only real concern was competing against my own partners, because a lot of VTurb partners run their own mentorships, right? So I didn't want to launch a mentorship just to compete with those guys, because that feels pretty messed up. So I'd have to figure out a way to build a product that, you know. Did you actually ask them? Look, I never asked, man, but to me it just seemed

kind of obvious, you know? Like, if they're teaching someone... Let's say, if you have a VSL coaching program, and João starts a coaching program too, why would you send your leads to João to feed his backend and lose your own mentorship sales? At that point, they might just stop recommending us, or tell people to just go on YouTube instead, something like that. Well, business is business, right? But you said something super interesting: I couldn't charge a higher price. But here's a crucial point people really need to grasp. Sometimes you don't even need to charge more.

If you have a highly dialed-in operational efficiency, you can actually charge a bit less, but walk away with a much wider margin. Because sometimes your competitor charges top dollar, but they have a massive, bloated Corporate structure, so at the end of the day, their net profit isn't even that great, you know? So we focused heavily on delivery efficiency across all our products. Today, we run these high-ticket offers with absolutely absurd margins. Why? Because our delivery efficiency is just insane. Delivery efficiency, man? Yeah, exactly. So what I'm hearing is that you deliver a really high-end product

while keeping costs super low. That's what I'm getting. Is that what you mean? Yeah, minimal costs. Or is it fast delivery? Both... And why spending less? When you have real delivery efficiency, you can automate a lot of the processes, you actually improve your clients' results, And as a natural byproduct, you can scale much harder. How does that look in practice? Today, every single product inside our company is completely playbook-driven from end to end, across every phase. It's incredibly well-structured. Basically, there's even this quote from Leonardo Da Vinci: You measure the level of complexity of a

system when there is absolutely nothing left to take away from it. Not sure if that's actually Da Vinci, but I think so. How does it go again? You measure— You can measure the complexity of a system not by how much stuff is in it, but by how much stuff you can't remove. That's true operational efficiency, okay? So, like, the harder it is to remove something, the more complex it actually is? Exactly. People spend all this time trying to add more solutions, stack more deliverables, hire more people, thinking it makes the product better, but it's the

Exact opposite. Operational efficiency means that when you have almost nothing left to strip away, that system is actually highly complex. Why? Because every single piece relies entirely on the others to function, you know? And I apply that logic to products. If everything is dialed in, with virtually zero leaks throughout the entire delivery pipeline, I can overdeliver and drive better results with a much smaller headcount. Which then allows me to sometimes offer a more competitive price, generate massive wins, and make the offer completely unbeatable. We apply that to all our products, especially the high-ticket ones. We're

constantly operating with a mindset of leverage and scale, you know? Yeah. Got it, man. Makes total sense. I mean, they say simplicity is the ultimate sophistication. Yeah, exactly! I think That's the quote Da Vinci actually said. I'm mixing up my Da Vinci quotes, but I'm pretty sure he said that one, not the other one. Look it up and put it on screen, editor. Just kidding. Tiago, just do whatever Braz is telling you, man. If Braz said to look it up, bro, just do it. Throw it on the screen, check if it was actually Da Vinci,

alright? Find out who said it and put it up. Oh, and throw up who won the FIFA match too, okay? Just to make the podcast a bit cooler. I'm gonna crush your skull, dude. Yeah, we'll see about that, man... So, man, how can people actually, like, what exact path should they take to build out these high delivery efficiency products? And by the way, did you invent that term, delivery efficiency? Because I'm pretty Sure I've never heard anyone use that before. No man, I think it's not a term, well, actually, I don't know. I just call

it that way. I have no idea, really. I figured they were normal words. I figured some consultant said: You need high delivery efficiency. It's our unique mechanism, okay? The delivery efficiency of the Mona Lisa. Look at that, guys, that's the copywriter's instinct. That's what we just caught live on camera, pure copywriter street smarts. Notice how quickly he pulled that out? It's all about connecting the dots, man. You smoothly tied it back to the Mona Lisa thing. That's the two brain cells firing... Leonardo da Vinci's operational efficiency. Go ahead and trademark that and tell my legal

team. That term is mine. That's brilliant, man. But seriously, how does that process of extracting efficiency from these products actually work? Because from what I'm gathering, this is something you clearly spent a lot of time dialing in, right? And essentially, as far as I can tell, it's all about making the whole thing highly scalable. So I'm assuming you have to hire people to execute the fulfillment for you. Here's what I'm picturing in my head, right? I'm guessing we have to sit down and map out what the deliverables are, and what the person needs to do.

Okay, so what I don't need to be personally doing? Great, I remove myself from that piece. Then, what really needs my attention? Or better yet - what's the bare minimum I can do that people actually want from me? Okay, so there are a few key elements to structuring a solid product. It all stems From the core concept of growth, right? Growth marketing basics. First, you have an idea, form a hypothesis, run tests, and validate or invalidate it. So the first thing you have to figure out is: where do I even start? And where should you

start? You need to map out your baseline delivery process, alright? and what does that look like? The person buys, they enter their customer lifecycle, and they need to attend a few calls. I'm using a mentorship as an example here. So they show up to some meetings, complete specific cycles and tasks, and by the end, they walk away with a specific output. Perfect. Once I've mapped the exact flow a client goes through from the moment they pay—and by the way, payment and signing the contract are part of this flow. So from the second they sign that

contract up to the moment they get their First win, you have to know exactly what the deliverables are. And here is the most crucial part. Once you lock in the deliverables, you have to eliminate all friction. That's step one. Well, step two, actually. So, where might friction pop up regarding the team? I'll give you an example. We were running into this issue a lot—whenever a client joined our mentorship, or rather, our old mentorship model, they'd get a full business audit, right? We'd send them this audit within 48 hours. That's the target timeframe, because we noticed

that if it took longer than 48 hours, satisfaction dropped, which directly hurt their activation rate inside the program. So we compressed that window down to exactly 48 hours. That became our KPI. Right after the audit call, they had to fill out an intake form so we could understand their business under the hood. But what was happening? People did the call but completely ignored the form. Meaning we had tons of clients, and zero clue about their actual businesses or bottlenecks. So, what did we do? We simply moved that intake form to before the audit call. Basically

saying: Hey, to get on this audit call, you have to fill out this form first. It was a friction point, and instantly it wasn't anymore. Make sense? The second you have the flow fully mapped out, you spot the bottlenecks. Then it's just about moving them around. There's actually a whole theory on this—the Theory of Constraints. There's always a bottleneck in any workflow. The real question is: where do you strategically want it to be? It's all about shifting bottlenecks. I moved the form upstream, and suddenly, Everyone filled it out. And you do that across the entire

pipeline. Why is this critical? When you have this machine perfectly oiled, you can run it with way fewer employees, and you can automate a massive chunk of it using AI, right? I mean, the operational flow, obviously, not the core coaching delivery. And overall, you dramatically reduce customer friction. Which ultimately drives insane operational efficiency. You see what I mean? Got it, man. Obviously, I just broke down a 48-hour window, but this framework applies to the entire monthly cycle of the mentorship program. You just map out all that data and find the gaps. That was just one

practical example that worked incredibly well. Yeah... Let me ask you a few questions here. But first—where did you even learn or pick up that phrase, "theory of constraints"? Where did you get that from, did somebody teach you that? It's a real theory, okay? And like I was saying... well, actually I didn't mention this yet. But where did you actually learn it? I actually learned it from Dércio and Duda. The theory of constraints works for a lot of different, slightly more complex systems. Let me give you a quick example. Well, here's a great example. Back when

they were doing heavy corporate consulting, they visited this one manufacturing plant. Oh, you mean Duda? Duda and Dércio. I'll share their story so you understand it. Wait, Duda is Marcos Duda, right? Yeah. Got it. Now I'm following. So, they visited this brick manufacturing plant. Like, they literally made bricks, Right? And to boost production and increase revenue look, I'm summarizing the story here, okay? management went out and bought an extra kiln. This crazy expensive, multi-million dollar oven, expecting revenue to skyrocket. More production, more revenue, everybody wins, right? But they realized revenue stayed flat, despite this massive

capital investment. So they dug in to find out why. They ran a deep bottleneck analysis on the system—where the brick hits the conveyor belt, passes through several ovens—or whatever they're called. Then at the end of the line, a guy packages it up. It was a simple assembly line process. And during this analysis, they figured out exactly why buying that extra multi-million dollar oven wasn't moving the needle on revenue. The bottleneck trace revealed that one of the crucial heating elements was completely blown out. Yeah. It was the brick drying phase—I forget the exact term. So basically,

they just fixed that one broken drying unit, and almost instantly doubled or tripled total plant production. Because the bottleneck was never a lack of ovens; the bottleneck was that one broken dryer holding everything back. When you properly identify the true bottleneck and actually optimize it, your productivity goes through the roof, it becomes wildly leveraged. That's the core of the Theory of Constraints. Find the bottleneck, optimize it, subordinate the system, and your throughput skyrockets. That's super cool... So Marcos Duda and Dércio actually taught you this? Like, walked you through it? Yeah, Dércio de Oliveira. I learned

it from them. I mean, some scholar pioneered the concept, but I can't remember who. It's actually from a book called "The Goal". It'll pop up on screen for you guys. It's a classic, pretty old-school management book, man. Honestly, I'm kind of surprised you brought that framework up. Have you actually read that book? I have. Not a ton of people know about it since it's a bit older, but it's an incredible read. And look, man, I've spent a lot of time chewing on this whole theory of constraints, and the conclusion I landed on is that every

business only has one true constraint. You know what it is? It's the founder. The entrepreneur is the ultimate ceiling of the business. Like, if we yanked you out of your company right now and swapped in some absolute killer, like Elon Musk, I guarantee your revenue would skyrocket, because the main thing capping your company's growth right now is, well, basically you. Makes sense? Like, it's you and Diandra. It's the scope of your ideas, your personal capacity to execute on what actually moves the needle. If we pulled you out and dropped in a rookie who doesn't know

the ropes—like Gabe over there, right Gabe? Put him in charge and it'd be a total disaster, purely from lack of experience Yeah. So that's how I eventually built out this mental model, 'cause your sheer ability to spot those bottlenecks in the first place, entirely depends on your own headspace. And if you lack the operational awareness to even spot those bottlenecks to begin with, then congratulations, you are the bottleneck. Crazy to think about, right? I mean, that's a good way to think about it. But that sits at a macro level, right? I mean, there's always going

to be one bottleneck, like, one real bottleneck That unlocks the absolute biggest move in your business. And look, this was something we had to learn the hard way. Every company is going to have inefficiency, it's going to have a bottleneck. The question is, where do you want that bottleneck to be? And there are multiple ones, even. But there's a biggest one. Right - There's THE inefficiency. Like, do you want your bottleneck in customer support, or in your sales team? Support, man, obviously. Like, support, for sure. Why? Because a bottleneck in the sales team is extremely

dangerous. So tolerating inefficiency was maybe one of the most important skills I developed, especially over this past year, building a company the size of ours. You know? There's always going to be inefficiency. Got it? Yeah, man. And this is actually a really interesting way to know what to do inside Your company, to think about strategic direction. Funny enough, man, that's exactly how I think today, you know? I mean, my mental model for company growth is exactly what you just described with the bottleneck, right? Because a lot of the time, people ask themselves, "What do I

do to grow?" But it's actually way easier to use the law of inversion and ask, "Why isn't my company growing?" And that's where you'll find the true bottleneck, you know? And once you solve that bottleneck, you unlock a new level of growth. Which unlocks a new bottleneck. Exactly. Then you solve that new bottleneck. Why isn't my company growing? Look, today I do a million a month, cool. Why Not two? Well, because my VSL isn't converting. Or because I don't have traffic. Or because I do have traffic, the VSL converts, but my AOV is too low

at the end. Alright, so which one am I going to fix? What's the main one? Is it traffic? Maybe I need more ad accounts? Maybe I need more creatives here so I can find new slices of the audience? Maybe I've got plenty of creatives, solid ad accounts, the VSL is profitable, but people aren't swiping for high-ticket. So let's introduce an upsell. Boom, now I drive up AOV and unlock a new level of scale. I reinvest heavier into ads, my AOV stays healthy, and now I'm doing three million a month. So, what's the bottleneck now? Now

I need more ad accounts, 'cause traffic is capped. Or maybe traffic's fine, but AOV is the ceiling again. So dude, just plug a High-end mentorship to push it higher. So that's a powerful framework for growing a business. Instead of asking, "What am I going to do?", you ask, "Why am I not growing?" You flip it around, and then you fix that bottleneck. Yeah, a bottleneck will always exist in your ops. But the thing is - let's say, My VSL isn't converting. It's choking front-end acquisition, right? Think about it. It's much easier to raise your promise

level, maybe put out a stronger offer, and have that end up creating a ton of support work, you know? But honestly, I'd much rather have my VSL be a little more aggressive and sell way more, than keep support nice and easy. The bottleneck just moved somewhere else, right? So when we talk about product, it's exactly this. I find the bottleneck, I remove the friction, and where does it go? Like, It Has to sit wherever it matters least at that moment. So that's the framework I use to build products, right? Like, anyone can build a product.

But nailing ops efficiency is a different beast. And with AI on top of that, man... look, once you have that core ops flow actually built out, then you can implement AI, right? But I'm completely against this fear-mongering trend of, 'Oh, let's replace everybody, let's just hire AI agents and run a one-person business.' Man, I'm totally against that. I think that's still very far from our reality. I know a lot of big founders—AI guys running companies doing a hundred, two hundred million a year—who say exactly that. It's just fear-mongering, the hype thing to say. But we

use AI strictly for ops efficiency. How do we automate delivery? How do we map what's Actually happening inside a mentorship, for example? All that is ops efficiency - and again, I get a scalable product, I can pay more per customer, and it's a massive competitive edge. Absolutely. Very good, man. Man, I had no idea you had so many backend products. You’ve created a whole bunch of them. How many products do you have in total? Man, no, in our front-end funnel, we have around five products, okay? If you count the order bump and the upsell, there

are about five products in total. But in your case, you have the VSL product and the products that come from it, which are the order bumps and upsells. So you have the main product, plus the order bump and the upsell. Yeah, it’s about five, roughly five or six products in our front-end product line. We have another method product I mentioned, and we also have the old coaching program, right? We have... These are the back-ends now. Those are the backend products now, right? We have the method product, the old coaching program, and the done-for-you service. We’re

also building two more products so we can serve different types of audiences in different ways, okay? Because you guys have a lot of different front-end audiences coming in, and they have different needs. That’s why you’re creating these additional products. Yeah, exactly. Both in terms of the audience’s needs and desires, and also in terms of the actual price point, right? You can filter your audience based on how much they’re willing to pay. So the idea is to fill the gaps that exist across the Different price points, so we can offer our solution to every segment of

the population that wants it, obviously, and make sure there’s an offer that fits what they’re willing to invest. I get it. So basically, you maximize the profit you can generate from that traffic, which makes total sense. That’s really good. Exactly. The more places people have to go, the higher your level of ascension, you know? But again, this is something you build gradually over time. You can’t just go crazy and start building a bunch of products without a plan, because it won’t make sense in the long run, you know? The inefficiency will be way too high.

One at a time. Test it, validate it, grow. Test, validate, build. Test, validate, build. And that’s how you gradually build your product line, step by step, without creating unnecessary inefficiency. Good, awesome. Man, with these products, okay? We’re seeing this whole wave of people moving toward this model that you’re building right now, and it seems like more and more people are starting to follow this approach... And here’s another idea I’d give you, man. I don’t know if you’d find it interesting, but even on this VTurb podcast, I think this could be really valuable, okay? You could

sell programs, like coaching programs for people in the infoproduct space, teaching this whole model we’re talking about right now, okay, guys? So that’s an idea for you. I know you don’t normally do that, but, actually, you do that, right? Do what? Sell coaching programs that help people apply your business model to their own businesses. VSL on the front with back-end? I haven’t sold that yet. We were actually talking about it yesterday, because it’s a really strong pain point, right? I see very few people, and honestly, I don’t think there are any, who can handle both

front-end scale through direct traffic and content, while also having a solid product structure. I’ve never seen anyone do all of that. There are people who do it, okay? But I don’t think there’s anyone actually selling this as a service. And so, guys, what’s really working the most in the market today? What’s getting the best results right now? 2026, and probably 2027 too. If you want to make a profit, not revenue, to actually make money with infoproducts, I’m talking money in your pocket, okay? If you want revenue, go do nutraceuticals overseas. Go sell over there. There’s

no way you can compete, man. Those guys make a ton of revenue. They make a ton, a ton, A ton. It’s good for getting those plaques, right? The plaque is cool, you take a picture with it and all that. Yeah, the guy’s gonna end up with a lot of plaques, but... VTurb plaque. Yeah, not so much with VTurb, because overseas it’s really difficult. The traffic is so expensive, right? The CPC over there is like ten reais, I don’t know. It’s kind of insane, so it makes things difficult. If the guy got that overseas, he’d made

a lot of money. The people getting those plaques are you guys in the infoproduct market in Brazil, or Info Latam, which... Latam is also very cheap. It’s really cheap too, right? So the guy goes for it. But when it comes to profit, man, without a doubt, the biggest opportunity right now is this whole thing. And there aren’t many people teaching this, okay? This whole idea of, “I’m gonna put a VSL on the front end with a backend funnel and content production.” That kind of implementation basically doesn’t exist, and there’s actually a lot of demand for

it. That’s why I invited you, you know, so we could talk about this. Cool. Actually, if you guys want, click the link in the... I'm kidding. Guys, look, Braz’s Instagram is gonna show up on the screen, okay? Just type in VTurb, and if you want, you can set up some kind of automation, man. Because if you say, “At the end, I’m gonna send people to your Instagram to talk to you,” you could end up getting overwhelmed, because maybe a lot of people are gonna send you messages, right? You can send them. I have an SDR

team there, they’ll book the call, we’ll, I’m kidding. No, but you can message me there, you should, you know? Let’s see, Maybe I’ll build a solution like that. Alright, man. So, look, Braz’s Instagram is gonna show up on the screen, okay? First, type in VTurb and see if he set up any automation. I’m telling you this so you can see how this automation thing works, because a lot of people come to VTurb, message us on Instagram, and regret it, because then they get messages like, “Hey, how are you? What’s up? I don’t know what,” and

they keep getting traffic for a long time, okay? VTurb, send the people over there to the call, okay? You can go ahead and test VTurb out. Yeah, but you know what works best, right? See if the automation is working, and if it’s not, go for it. You can test VTurb, it’ll be there, okay? Good. So, man, there are a lot of people doing this right now, and there’s a Really strong demand for it. And I wanted you to tell me this: out of all those backend products you have, okay? The people watching at home are

probably already creating content, and they probably already have some knowledge of how to make a VSL, which we’ve already covered here. But if they had to choose just one single product to put into the backend, what would you recommend as the product that would maximize their profit and generate the most revenue overall for the business? And then, obviously. This guy already has a product on the front end, right? He already has the VSL. He has the VSL on the front end, he already has the content working, and now he’s building out that backend. So far,

what I see working really well is the webinar. The guy just adds the webinar there, and then you can have a weekly webinar or Even a daily webinar. And that’s what maximizes the profit, not because the price point is necessarily that high, but because you’re multiplying the ticket by the volume of sales. So there are a lot of them, selling at a solid price point. That’s where the profit from the webinar actually comes from. In fact, Elida Dias, whose podcast is gonna show up on the screen, makes seven figures, sometimes even multiple seven figures, with

this structure, man. Her funnel is this, it doesn't have the Done For You, whatever that is, or the high-end offer at one billion reais. Man, it’s a VSL on the front end, a webinar on the backend, a daily webinar, and boom. With everything you know now, man, after building this company, with high margins, multiple teams working on the backend, and so many different Touchpoints with the customer, what do you think is the 80/20 when it comes to this backend monetization? If you were to rebuild your business at Diandra from scratch today, what would you do

first with the main goal of maximizing profit, actual money in your pocket, rather than simply maximizing revenue? Based on everything you know now, what would you do? It depends on the size of the company you’re at and where you want to go. Again, the first step for someone creating a product and starting this level of ascension is understanding how much I’m actually willing to invest in it: time, money, resources, and energy. So, if you have a smaller team and you don’t want to increase the complexity of the business, I’d go with a product where the

delivery can work almost entirely Automatically. So maybe a course, a technology product, an automated service, a tool, or something like that, something that could scale without necessarily requiring you to keep expanding the team and adding more complexity to the operation. Braz, I have a team, I want to have a more robust team, I want to charge a little more, increase my margin, but I don’t have the structure for that. Man, I’d go with a product that’s kind of like a coaching program, okay? An acceleration program where you work with the person on the next step

they need to take in their product line. But either way, at first, I’d use a webinar structure combined with a sales team. That would be the ideal scenario for me, you know? So you build the webinar, because you can automate the entire webinar process, right? Then from That webinar, you send people to an application, and from there you decide whether you’re going to sell the fifteen-thousand, ten-thousand, or five-thousand-reais product, depending on what makes the most sense for that person. And then you have this structure, okay? Obviously, the more expensive your product is, the more substantial

the delivery needs to be, right? Not necessarily in terms of how many people are involved, but in terms of the results you deliver. And that’s what you need to think about, okay? Again, the webinar funnel is one of the best funnels. Why? Because you can automate it, okay? If you create a good webinar, you leave it running, and it keeps flowing every single week, you know? And then, back here, your role is to sell. So it depends a lot on your structure, right? For example, for us, we created the coaching program because it Was much

easier to generate results for the customer, it was a higher-ticket offer, and the margin was high, so it made a lot of sense for our business. After we improved the team, we built something a little more automated and a little more robust that runs weekly, and we run both of them in parallel, you know? So what’s the important point here? It really depends on where you are in your business. You know? It’s that thing, right? I was, I, no, I’m not gonna say the phrase I was about to say. Actually, I’m gonna say it, because

I heard this phrase one day, and it’s pretty ugly, okay? It’s not a nice phrase. I heard it while I was playing soccer in Guarulhos. It was the coach there in Guarulhos who said it one day, and I never... Let's see if Diandra approves, look over there. I never forgot that phrase. She’s heard it before. The phrase goes like this: “If You’re afraid to shit, don’t eat.” You know? If you’re not gonna be able to deliver what you’re promising, then don’t get into the business in the first place. You know? Does that make sense or

not? It’s pretty straightforward when you think about it. So good, dude. That’s it. You have to understand how much you can handle, you know? Where you want to go. What result do you want? You know? If you're afraid to shit, you don't eat. You have to be able to deliver. Damn, absolutely. Man, assuming we’re talking about the webinar, okay? How did you learn how to create a good webinar, and what should people focus on if they want to build a webinar that actually works and delivers results? I know you’re a copywriter, and, man, you have

that instinct we talked about at the beginning of the podcast. And you know Jason Fladlien, right? Have you ever heard of him before, or are you familiar with his work? Is that the webinar guy? Yeah, Did you know we have a VTurb podcast episode with him? I didn't know. Cool. It’s gonna show up on the screen, guys, okay? The podcast we did with Jason Fladlien. He’s a webinar expert, and he has a book called “One to Many,” which is also gonna show up on the screen. In it, he explains his framework for creating webinars. There’s

also Russell Brunson’s book, “Expert Secrets,” which is also gonna show up on the screen. It has some webinar formulas in there as well. But I wanted to know from you, man, how did you actually learn? Was it mostly by doing It? Did you study any resources or anything like that? I wanted you to explain this webinar funnel to everyone, because like you said, it seems like a really interesting funnel for someone who wants to start monetizing their infoproduct and build that backend. So walk us through how it works. The main point, again, I’m gonna go

back to the basics. The main thing you need to succeed in your sales process is to truly understand the concepts behind what you’re doing. When I wanted to learn webinars, I went straight to the roots of webinars, looking at where they were actually working around the world and understanding what was making them work. And then I went straight to Russell Brunson, who at the time, when I started studying webinars, was probably the most hyped guy in the space. It was Russell Brunson’s VSL structure, which he was running with a sales team back then, when He

was basically the absolute best in the game. He was the man, you know? And he had a specific structure that you could follow, right? I don’t think it makes sense to get into the whole structure here, but the structure exists, right? So I took that structure. I didn’t know anything about webinars, I just knew it was somewhat similar to a VSL, right? Because the persuasion structure itself doesn’t change, it’s really just how you put the structure together. And from there, I started testing it, right? In the beginning, I got a lot of webinars wrong. I

found it really difficult because a webinar has to feel like it’s happening live, right? There are some nuances to it. That’s why it’s good to do it live at first and keep testing until you find an optimal solution. Then you can record it, or just use the live Version you already recorded, and that’s totally fine. So I went back to the roots of it to really learn how it worked. The webinar model I really like is Elton Wheeler’s, too. It’s not exactly a webinar structure from him, but his launch structure is really useful when you’re

trying to structure a piece of copy. Does he teach that? Or did you reverse-engineer it? I reverse-engineered it, obviously. I went there, grabbed his transcript, and studied it to understand it, because it’s one of the biggest launch case studies in Brazil right now. Tom Wilder is a pretty big name in the space. And then... Why is that? How much revenue did he make? Some nine digits per year. I've seen this... the... He’s the guy who created Permission, you know? No, Man, I've seen his face on Instagram, but... So I took his sales structure, understood why

it worked, and mixed it with the things that work for me, you know? Then we built the structure, tested the first version, it worked, I improved the second one, and that worked too. I say, “Man, this is the model.” I recorded it, and it flows 100%, you know? It’s fully automated. So you have two options: either you automate the whole thing with AI and automations, or you keep running it manually every week, you know? It depends on your setup. Again, if you have a small team and limited technical knowledge, just do it manually. Create the

groups manually, handle the lead capture manually, and even set up the API manually. That’s totally fine. If you have the structure, automate it and let it run, you know? I prefer weekly, but you can also do it daily or monthly. There are several different Structures you can implement, you know? And then you just let it run smoothly. What’s really good is having a sales team ready to handle the leads that are constantly coming in. If you just let people buy directly, depending on your price point, it doesn’t always make sense. Your conversion rate is gonna

be much higher if you have someone there to give the sales process that extra push, you know? That’s what we do today, after a lot of testing. Webinars are a lot of testing, you know? That's your answer. How do you know if the webinar is actually good when you’re testing it on the backend? Something is gonna sell, and you don’t have any traffic costs. So, in theory, every webinar is gonna be good, right? Because it’s gonna sell something... If you sell one, you're in the profit. Do you have some Kind of metric, like, “I want

the webinar to hit an X conversion rate to know it’s performing well”? Conversion. Conversion based on the people who are actually on the live, right? To optimize the webinar, I look at the number of people on the live versus the conversion rate. Why doesn’t it make sense to use leads? Because there are a lot of people who drop off along the way. When you compare the number of people who watched the webinar with the number of conversions, you can really analyze the copy of that webinar. You know? A higher conversion rate means your VSL, your

copy, is better. And then you keep improving it, it is a continuous flow. Good. Man, I’ve already run a webinar on VTurb, and in theory, guys, the idea was To run it for cold traffic. But only in theory, because the reality is, I think we were already pretty well known by that point. So even though we were advertising to cold traffic, it ended up being at least warm traffic, simply because of the brand’s relevance and how familiar people already were with it. And the way I did it was by using Russell Brunson’s Perfect Webinar framework.

Basically, you start by making a clear promise to the person about what you’re going to teach them. Then you explain how they can actually achieve that benefit, you give them three secrets, three tips that will help them get that benefit, and then you make the transition into the offer. So, “Today, I’m gonna teach you how to increase the conversion rate of your VSL.” How do you do that? You have to run A/B tests. So here are three: one, two, three. Want more? Here’s the offer.” That’s basically it, guys, over an hour And a half, two

hours. Actually, is your webinar that long? One hour and a half, more or less. Yeah, it’s a longer funnel than a VSL funnel. So that’s basically what I did. But you know what was a really smart thing I did, and I want to share this with everyone watching? I always ran the webinar live. I never did a recorded webinar, okay? The plan was to record it later, after I had already done it live. And why did I do it live? Because I could look at the chat and see exactly how people were reacting at different

points throughout the webinar. So when I said X, the guy had a reaction in the chat. Then I said Y, and there was another reaction in the chat, and I could track those responses as I went. Then I’d take the chat transcript from WebinarJam and go through the whole thing. I’d read it and see, “Okay, at this minute I said this, and at this Other minute, I said that,” and so on. Then, whenever I found an objection coming up in the chat, I’d go back into the webinar and create a new slide specifically to address

that objection. So I started the webinar I think I had... Infinite optimization. Yeah, I had 110 slides, and I think I got up to 260 after two, three months. Analytics. My God. Yeah, it got pretty crazy. I’d say something, and then the guy would always comment in the chat, “Man, João, but I don’t have this.” So I’d go back and add it to the webinar, and I’d say, “It’s still gonna work even if you don’t have that, because of this, this, and this.” So I’d just, boom, kill the objection right at the exact moment the

guy was about to stop and think about it. Did you do it weekly? Every Thursday at 7 PM in the evening. Yeah, that guy is the optimization nut. Every Thursday at 7 PM, I’d run the webinar, collect all the feedback, redo the slides on Friday, and then run the lead-generation campaign throughout the entire week so I could come back and run the webinar again the following Thursday. And what was the goal of all this? I’d capture the leads on the opt-in page, and then on the thank-you page, there was a VSL with an offer for

VTurb. And that page was converting at 5%, which was a pretty solid conversion rate for us at the time. So the money from the webinar was basically just used to put back into traffic and sell VTurb on the thank-you page after the lead capture. So my 80/20 wasn’t about selling the infoproduct, I didn’t really care about that. My 80/20 was selling VTurb through the lead capture. So I’d say this. A one time offer there. That was my offer. I’d say, “Man, for the webinar, we’re gonna need this tool, VTurb, so just sign up here.” And

in the beginning, it was free. I’d say, “Sign up, it’s free,” and it converted at 0.5%. How crazy is that? Then I thought, “Damn, that can’t be right. Man, maybe I...” So I tested the headline and all that stuff. Then I talked to a friend of mine, Jonathan, and he said, “No, man, instead of making it free, charge 1 real, because then people will understand that they actually have to pay something.” I said, “Ah, that’s interesting, man.” So before, it was free for 14 days. Then I said, “Okay, now it’s gonna be 1 real.” Then

I said, “Guys, it’s usually 97 reais, but I’m selling it for just 1 reais.” And the conversion went from 0.5% to 5%. So that simple price change increased the conversion rate tenfold, you know? It was really interesting. But, man, a tip for everyone watching who wants to optimize a webinar, this is a Good approach. You run it, collect feedback, and every week, you change one little thing or another. There will always be something to change. Yeah, in the beginning, I think it’s important to run these tests live, right? Until you get to the point where

you say, “Man, this is the one that converted the best.” Obviously, if I had optimized it more, maybe it would have converted even better, but I preferred to automate it and just let it run. And once you find your winning copy, you’re good. Good. Man, I wanna know one last thing here, okay? Even though I understand your business model as a whole, I still wanna understand... how you guys are able to charge such high prices, man. You said you have a really high success rate when it comes to the solution you provide, right? Is that...

like, what gives you the confidence to charge that much, because you know the solution is actually Going to work for the customer? You mentioned, I think, that around 98% of the people are getting results from the high-ticket product, because that alone is pretty difficult, right? It’s already hard enough for us to create a really good product in the first place. And I think that’s really a pillar of your business, because if you have backend products, how are you gonna sell those more expensive offers if the products don’t actually work in the first place? You’re not

gonna be able to earn the person’s trust, get them results, and ultimately convince them to buy another product from you later on or continue investing in your other offers down the road. So, yeah, that problem definitely exists. So tell me, man, how did you actually go about creating a really good product, and what did you do to make sure it truly works in practice? Yeah, the first point you made that’s really important is that the product makes a huge difference if you want to build a company that lasts over time. So when you have a

funnel and your only concern is selling, you’re basically just playing the game of making money. But when you care about the delivery, you care about making the sale, and you care about the results people are actually getting, then you truly have a real business, obviously with management, operations, and all those other things that come with running a company. So I see very few people paying attention to this, because a good product makes people refer you, move up your product line, and speak positively about you. That creates credibility in the market, which is an intangible asset

that people often overlook. And then they end up doing things that damage that credibility without even realizing it’s affecting their conversion rate. So this is an extremely important point. We take the product very seriously here, and that’s one of our strengths as a company, especially when it comes to operational efficiency. But how do we actually do it today? We have a few core principles that we use, which we've built over time, you know? But our complete framework relies on positioning, content, and sales. Building a strong personal brand online today rests heavily on these three fundamental

pillars. First is positioning. Positioning is essentially the exact territory that you want to occupy inside people's minds, right? So think about it, there are tons of doctors out there today, but how exactly can you differentiate yourself? Because the moment you manage to stand out and own a unique space that belongs Exclusively to you in a person's mind, you stop competing on price, you stop attracting difficult clients, you stop dealing with people asking for discounts, and you can charge significantly higher prices. Why? Because if your positioning is rock solid, you become one of the very few

people who do that in their eyes, so you can charge whatever you want. Obviously, within the boundaries of everyday common sense, right? So that is precisely what strategic positioning is designed for, right? How can I differentiate you so that you can boost your margins, scale your sales, and turn you into a recognized authority. So today we break down positioning into a few key pillars, but I believe the most essential ones for people watching at home to understand in order to build great positioning is a clear framework consisting of internal vision, external Vision, and market vision,

right? What does that actually mean in practice? You're going to gather specific market insights, aggregate them together, and construct your positioning. Positioning—this is an important point to emphasize—positioning to me isn't taking a nice picture for Instagram. Positioning isn't about scheduling a professional photoshoot or having a clean feed. Sure, that plays a small role, but that's not what it's really about. Positioning means being truly relevant to the people who actually matter. And who matters? The ones who afford your services. So the main objective of this framework is figuring out how you can tap into this specific

leverage point and build the strongest possible foundation of authority. Internal vision: you're going to conduct a deep audit of yourself, understanding What you perform significantly better than everyone else, where you feel most competent executing and driving real results for your clients. So it really comes down to what you excel at doing. It's a self-assessment that you perform on yourself, listing your strengths and extracting key data. External vision: what do you do next? You're going to reach out directly to your top clients and ask them those exact same questions. What do you believe I do better

than anyone else? How did I transform your life? What were the key deciding factors that made you choose to work with me? These are specific questions you ask your client to gather valuable qualitative data. And market vision: you're going to look at your primary competitors and analyze the exact same details. What is their core strength? What is their unique Value proposition? What offers are they running? Because that allows you to gain a comprehensive understanding of where the market currently stands. When you synthesize internal vision, external vision, and market vision, right in the center of all

that lies your unique positioning, you see? And that is what enables you to claim a distinct space that is entirely your own across the internet, right? So from the moment we pinpoint that, we're able to establish a powerful and crystal-clear competitive advantage, right? And a differentiator isn't having some super over-the-top gimmick, a differentiator isn't... well, I see this all the time, right? A doctor, for example, invents a basic procedure and calls it the "Skin Age Method," you know? That's not a real differentiator, not at all. Simply naming a method isn't a differentiator. A real differentiator

is being able to analyze these three perspectives and clearly define your stance. Alright, positioning established, now we move straight into the content strategy, because having great positioning means nothing if you don't actively distribute it. I see this massive bottleneck in so many companies that build positioning. Great, I have an incredible positioning statement, but how does that actually get in front of real people? How do I actually monetize this positioning? You have to get in front of brand new audiences, you have to get your core message out to far more people. So we go in and

build an end-to-end content ecosystem. The first point I mentioned regarding content directly ties back to what I consider the absolute core element of the three content pillars. A winning Idea must be a high-volume trending topic, an acute pain point in the niche, or a universal human problem, which I've already broken down and don't need to repeat. And the moment you secure a high-performing concept, you move straight into scripting the video, right? As I said, there are several precise steps that we have engineered, but to keep it simple for everyone watching at home, once you have

a compelling idea, you definitely need a strong hook. A hook—tons of guests talk about hooks here on the podcast, so viewers can check those out, but essentially a hook needs to be counterintuitive, open a deep curiosity loop in the viewer's mind, and above all, present a fresh perspective. What is the single biggest issue I see with most people's hooks when creating Content? They deliver the punchline or solution way too early in the video, you know? They reveal such a valuable piece of information right in the hook that viewers have zero reason to stick around for

the rest of the video, which is one of the most common mistakes we spot. So the hook must systematically open an unresolved loop in the viewer's mind. Alright... Once the hook is structured, you move directly into amplifying the specific pain point you established in that hook, right? In practice, let's say that you're a doctor and you are trying to sell—let's say orthopedic treatments, just to use a quick example. You script a hook like, "Three things I, as a doctor, completely stopped doing after learning what sitting in a chair actually does to my spine." Just a

broad example off the very top of my head. I'm making this up on the spot now. And then you transition straight into amplifying that pain. "So if you have a family or experience any back discomfort, it's critical that you pay close attention to this video, because ignoring it could easily cost you years of healthy mobility." Again, I'm improvising this script, alright? Right after the amplification phase, we jump straight into the actual content. So since I promised three things, I deliver those three exact points, so we deliver the core value. The core content generally falls into

two primary categories: either a structured listicle format—item one, item two, item three—or a strong opinion piece where you take a definitive stance backed by your positioning, right? For beginners, I strongly recommend sticking to the listicle format because it dramatically Increases viewer retention. When you tell people you have three key tips, they naturally stick around to hear the third one. So it boosts video retention, which is extremely helpful if you aren't a naturally gifted speaker yet. Once you deliver the core content, again, that content must be valuable and actionable, effectively moving the viewer from Point A

to Point B. If you state obvious facts, people won't interact, won't like, won't share, and the algorithm won't push that content to broader audiences, you see? So it must generate real lightbulb moments. Once the content has been covered, you move on to the transition part. The transition, essentially, in almost all the content we produce—since our primary goal is driving actual sales and generating high conversions—we pair with direct response calls to action. So the Transition is precisely the bridge line that anchors the pitch segment. In practice, how would that example sound? "Tip number one: never sit

with your legs crossed under you. Tip two: never stay seated over five hours," my two examples. "Tip three: blah blah. And where I see this exact issue occurring most frequently is among professionals who spend their entire day working at a desk." That right there is your transition, because they don't even realize they've been sitting for far too long and end up discovering their severe condition way too late. Okay, now we move directly into the CTA segment, right? And that's where you start transitioning into the actual pitch, introducing your specific solution. "And where I see this

happening most is with highly successful business Executives who don't realize the damage being done while sitting and end up developing severe herniated discs or other chronic issues. Hi, my name is John Doe, or let's say my name is Braz Cardoso, I've been a practicing orthopedist for over 13 years, and over the past several years I've helped people suffering from herniated discs—specifically caused by the poor seating setups they've used their whole lives—completely reverse their condition without any form of surgery. If you're dealing with this exact problem and want to discover the precise steps to fix it,

type 'Lower back' in the comments below, and I'll send a direct message detailing your action plan." A direct call to action linked with ManyChat, and the prospect takes action, see? So the positioning was clearly defined beforehand—obviously, you must establish solid positioning prior to publishing Content. Once positioning is locked in, you apply this exact scripting structure, and then you seamlessly transition into acquisition and sales. Why is this framework so powerful? Because it allows us to extract a person's unique core advantage and translate that advantage into a high-converting message reaching massive audiences. For instance, take Martha, right?

One of our top flagship case studies, Martha Leonardis, who teaches networking and executive positioning. We deployed this exact same content architecture for her, and within just three months, she gained well over one million highly engaged followers. And we're talking extremely qualified followers, right? We conducted our initial diagnostic with her, and during those three months, she generated over—I believe well over 12,000 direct leads, right? High-quality leads, since she sells a 180,000 product. I think it's higher now. Yeah dude, it's an executive group with direct access to her network, you know? And out of all the leads

who signed up, 15%—I think 15 to 20%—were MQLs. What's an MQL for her? People making over 80,000 a month, if I recall correctly, something like that. Just look at the sheer leverage of strategic content, right? We built out her end-to-end positioning, engineered her core content structure, and from that point on, she started generating an endless stream of ultra-qualified leads for her enterprise. That is precisely what we execute. We engineer a complete positioning and content architecture, while also optimizing their sales process, enabling clients to drive massive qualified demand through purely organic channels. So all these clients,

many of them simply record using their mobile phones, adhering strictly to the positioning framework and content structure, and they scale rapidly. We have doctors generating over 5 million organic views within their first two to three months, you know? Every single month. It's insane, right? Take Tiago Rassi, for example—one of our most recent success cases who onboarded. Man, he hits over a million views per video, it's wild. All by executing this exact blueprint. We work with doctors, lawyers, public speakers, high-level communicators. And this applies both to our core done-for-you service, where we build and execute this

entire architecture for the client, and to our accelerator programs, where we guide them step-by-step through implementing the framework themselves, you see? So the moment we have this battle-tested structure and validated methodology in place, we achieve incredible operational efficiency and generate a massive volume of success stories. Our NPS is sky-high, and our overall success rate, as I mentioned, is exceptionally high. That's the main point, because we aren't just an agency that sells, sells, sells. Because we prioritize product quality above everything else today, I have absolute clarity in my mind that we fundamentally transform businesses and scale

revenues using our expertise, allowing clients to establish commanding authority, premium market relevance, charge significantly higher prices for their core products, and distribute their brand image to millions of people monthly, right? Hundreds of thousands, even millions of impressions every single month. So by following this streamlined structure, which is meticulously Process-driven to eliminate friction, we can consistently generate massive demand for our clients, you see? So we managed to seamlessly connect all the dots together. A huge portion comes from positioning—Diana is exceptional at positioning—so we took that brand foundation, merged it with our deep background in direct response

copywriting, and built a robust system for establishing a powerful personal brand that drives measurable demand. What fails to qualify as a real personal brand, in my opinion? A personal brand isn't just having a sleek logo or an aesthetically pleasing Instagram grid. A real personal brand means building an entity that holds genuine market authority across the digital landscape, you know? So we combined a high-equity brand mindset with a ruthless performance marketing execution to build this high-converting delivery ecosystem. Does that make sense? Man, that sounds pretty complex. But it really is complex. That's the entire point. The

magic is taking a highly complex methodology and simplifying it so our operations team can flawlessly deliver it, and clients can predictably generate massive results, you see? So inside our mentorship program—or our acceleration program, as we call it now—we have a systematic process to guide clients step-by-step through developing this, and again, they get incredible results. And in our done-for-you service, where we step in and build this structure directly for them, we implement everything, allowing us to strictly control operational variables, you see? By executing all these strategic layers, we can still drive remarkably fast results, right? That's

why I always say, organic content is a powerhouse when you treat it as a core customer acquisition channel For your business, you see? Got it 100%... so...uh, wait, let me see if I got this right, okay? To wrap it up, you basically took... actually, you identified everything a person needs to do to get results based on your core promise... which in this case is building a powerhouse personal brand online, right? and then you merged those two... I mean, those two pillars, Diandra and yourself, you combined into this framework: positioning, sales, and content. And then you

created this truly scalable methodology that delivers consistent outcomes, making it delegable so you can scale operations, bringing on a high-performing team to assist with execution. And through that exact setup, you built a high-ticket program where you can command premium prices and construct A high-converting backend. It's precisely because I deliver great results, I can charge high prices, you see? So today, whenever I speak with a prospective client, or when my sales team conducts a call, they are thoroughly briefed. Man, we have the power to transform this client's enterprise, you know? So the mindset is locked in,

the sales posture is authority-driven, and that's why I charge top-dollar. You know the demand I generate for their business. If they have a solid sales team in place, man, they close an absurd volume of deals, you see? Do you think that's easily replicable? I mean, can people watching at home actually... like, build such a high-ticket offer using just their existing knowledge? Or do they need consulting, learn specialized skills first? As I said, this System sounds pretty complex, right? You had to bring two world-class specialists together, merging Diandra's expertise with yours to build this beast. Yeah,

I believe the price you can command for your offer directly correlates with the tangible financial output you predictably generate for your ideal client. Uh-huh. So if someone possesses a high-value, highly relevant solution for the market, and depending on the level of customized execution you can build into that offer, man, I see zero reason why you shouldn't charge premium rates. In fact, as I mentioned, we're currently in a market environment where clients actively demand bespoke, highly tailored solutions due to the widespread generalization caused by AI tools. So the timing is perfect, clients are actively seeking this

level of value. We're living in a very unique era where consumer attention is fragmented across dozens of platforms, multiple communication channels—Instagram, TikTok, Netflix, you name it. That's why it's so critical when you can execute and deliver a solution for clients in a way that guarantees smooth operational delivery and tangible Roy. People want proven results today; they're exhausted from trying, testing, and failing repeatedly. That's precisely why you can charge premium fees. You see? Uh-huh, got it. Man, that's incredibly solid. So, listen up, everyone watching at home who sells high-ticket services—the more measurable output and revenue you

generate for your clients, obviously, the higher your prices can go. And Braz just broke down the internal mechanics of their backend architecture, their high-end offer, and their growth accelerator program. So that's the elite operational standard you need to reach if you want to charge top-tier prices like Braz, especially considering those incredible client case studies he shared about doctors hitting millions of organic views. That's why this offer commands the valuation it does, right? So— yeah it's all about organic qualified demand generation at scale, right? So good, dude. And bro, tell me, what did you think of

the podcast? Man, I really enjoyed it. I honestly thought we'd wrap up a bit faster, you know? But we packed in a massive amount of actionable insights. And honestly, there's so much more we could cover here—there's always more, yeah. But I think it delivered massive value to the audience. I think I broke everything down clearly so people can take even a tiny fraction of what I shared here, deploy it directly into their enterprise, and see a massive Performance shift, generating real enterprise value. Yeah, the goal is for people to take one, two, maybe three tips

if it's a good podcast, and apply them to their business. Man, without a doubt, I think they definitely got something out of it. If you picked up a game-changing strategy today, drop a comment down below detailing the exact framework you're going to execute in your business. Love it... and Bro, what's your exact Instagram handle again? Braz, B-R-A-Z-Z, Cardoso. Braz Cardoso. Braz is my real name—it's not the subway station, it's not the São Paulo neighborhood, and it's not Braz Cubas. It's Braz with a Z, and it's my name. Before anyone asks. Folks, his name is Braz

spelled with a Z, okay? and the Instagram handle features double Zs, Braz Z-Z Cardoso, with an S. It has double Zs. Someone already took Braz with a Z, right? Yeah, he did. He did, right? Son of a gun. We need to go Handle that guy, man. And there's the handle with an S as well. I tried reaching out to buy it from him, man, I sent multiple messages, but he just won't reply. man, either sell it or you're in trouble. Because this guy is strong. This guy is on another level, okay? 280 kilos on the

deadlift. 280 on the deadlift. Damn man, 280 kilos is absolute beast mode! Yeah, gotta push hard... Fuck off, man! How do you lift that, bro? That's like four or five soy boys, give or take, right? No, I'm not saying that. Ah, come on, say it. Absolutely not. No, I'm not going to repeat that. No way. I'm not even going to repeat what she said, end of story. I got canceled once already. Ah, that's good, I like that. Man... look... one last thing, but actually I want to wrap this up because we need to go play

FIFA, bro! But... If you ask me, I'll give you a quick answer. So let me ask you, man. Does it make a huge difference? For example, you're lifting 100 kilos. Going from 100 to 200, is it the exact same feeling where you're just stronger, or does the force actually feel different, you know? It's different... It's different because in other exercises I can feel the difference, you know? Obviously, it's marginal. The higher I go, the harder it is to go up, you know? Going from 280 to 290 is tough, you get it? But I feel strong—so

much so that when I go to Ironberg, the gym where I train in Alphaville, guys bigger than me don't lift the weight I lift. No fucking way, man, 280? Are you seriously out of your mind? Are you crazy, bro? That's just so much weight. Fuck off, man—I think that Anatoly guy pulls about that much, man. Yeah, he pulls somewhere around 300-plus kilos. Man, I think—how much do you weigh? Around 100? 95. And he weighs like 78! Yeah, his peak strength is way higher, I mean, he's so much stronger than me. He's insane, absolutely insane. But

you're insanely impressive, man. Bro, I wanted to bring you to Ironberg just to cause absolute chaos with the bodybuilders there, man! They'd look over like: "Holy shit, look at João's friend bringing this absolute monster." Because those giant guys over there don't move that kind of iron, man. They just don't lift that heavy. it's hard. Being big is one thing, being strong is another, right? And that was a—well, a cool outlet I discovered to compete against myself, because I'm naturally intensely competitive, you know? I've played competitive sports my entire life—swimming, soccer, at a high level, You

know? Swimming and soccer. But when I dove full-time into entrepreneurship, I couldn't sustain those schedules anymore; I didn't have the bandwidth to train soccer three times a week or travel for matches and all that. So in the gym, I found a place to compete with myself. So every time I lift heavier than before, or go through that process, it's a competition with myself. But do you train pure powerlifting routines? Like, you... Yeah, powerlifting. I used to train more seriously, now I don't, I just train to keep my strength, because it takes a lot out of

the body. But what's your training like, is it five times a week, three? I currently train about four to five days per week. And is it a fixed daily routine, like full-body every session? No, my split is structured as a classic A, B, C, D, E routine. So I hit legs on one day, chest on the next, deadlifts and shoulders on another, followed by Dedicated arm and back sessions. Nice... that's awesome bro. I was supposed to—today is Friday, right? Today was actually my scheduled deadlift day, but I ended up skipping it. And yesterday was Thursday,

which was my arm day, and I missed that one too. Yesterday was Thursday, which was supposed to be—I don't even know what yesterday was, I was running around handling things. On Wednesdays I usually squat, but this week I slacked off, so I'll have to train Saturday and Sunday because demand has been crazy. So I just did a quick light cardio session. It's better than nothing, way better than nothing. Way better. Because there are three areas I actually work on, right, man? There's the heart part, that's cardio, mobility, so I can stay Flexible and all that...

and also the strength part. I work on all three of those too. It's important. That strength part is by far the one I do the most, even though it doesn't look like it, right, everyone? I know it doesn't show, because every now and then people ask me, "Hey, João, are you working out?" Man, I am. You guys just can't tell on camera, his arm's got to be like 50 centimeters around, at least. You see? Exactly, this camera of mine, it slims you down. Yeah. I noticed that. And people say stuff like, "João, you hitting the

gym? Taking something?" And then I say, "Man, looking like this, the only thing I could be on is Mounjaro." Just Mounjaro and chikungunya, right? Yeah. But man... thanks so much for your time here, okay? Braz's Instagram is going to Show up on screen one more time. And if you're at home watching us and you think Braz could help you out with something, go ahead and send him a message on Instagram. Type in "VTurb" and see if he's got some kind of automation for it. Or go check out Diandra's Instagram too, right? Yeah, go check out

Diandra's too. What's your Instagram, by the way? Really? "@segueadi" Nice, that's really cool. Look at that, everyone, "@segueadi", Diandra's Instagram is about to show up right there on the screen. And you type in "VTurb" there, or just type "Hi." Anyway, in case you're interested in maybe buying something from her and becoming a real reference in your niche. And positioning yourself well, being able to scale your content, sell, and profit off of it. It's totally possible, and Braz even walked us through the method here today, right? So there's that possibility too, for sure. And man... I

always end the podcast by having my guest send a message out to the VTurb audience. And you can send whatever kind of message you want. Some people talk about God, some people give a motivational message, some people reinforce the podcast's content. Look right into this camera here, and say something you think would be cool for everyone watching us. Let me say that phrase I mentioned earlier... That phrase is, "In a land of one-legged men, one pair of pants fits two." Take a second to really think about it. In a land of one-legged men... One pair

of pants fits two. One pair of pants fits two... When there's not much to go around, anything will do, you know? I'm just joking, everyone. Obviously that's not really it. Yeah, I think the main point I wanted to bring here was... That phrase is just top tier. Man... What does the one-legged have to do with... Think about it. In a land of one-legged men... That phrase is peak sophistication, honestly. It's basically the Leonardo da Vinci of phrases. That one's the Mona Lisa. That phrase is like the Mona Lisa. So... I think the main point I

wanted to bring here is that there are some really specific differences between having a funnel and actually having a company, you know? I wanted to share a few frameworks Here that we use to scale with margin, with predictability, with an engaged team, and most importantly, with people actually getting results, right? So my whole point here is exactly that, don't just treat the sales side of things as your entire company. You have to think about the other end too, if you actually want a long-lasting business, a long-term one, you know? Yeah, I think that's the main

point I wanted to bring here, and I think I managed to get it across. Nice. Alright everyone, that was another episode of the Scaling Secrets podcast. If you liked it, go ahead and follow Diandra, "@segueadi." If you enjoyed the podcast, go follow her. If you liked it, you already know, go follow Diandra. And also, okay, if you enjoyed this episode, besides following her, like I just said, I want to ask you For one more favor: Click on that arrow right here, look, there's an arrow down below, okay? They'll put some kind of graphic on screen,

some arrow or whatever... I don't know. Just click that arrow, man, and share this podcast. Drop it in a networking group, a mastermind, send it to a friend, honestly, just send it to someone, because that's what helps the podcast grow, and then I'm able to bring on more people to interview here, and keep making this content, completely free, for you. So it's something that helps you out too, you know? When the channel grows. And if you're able to do that, I really appreciate it. And if you don't want to, hey, that's totally fine too, okay?

You've really got to do it. Come on... Look how much time you've spent watching us already. It's free... Right, man? It's free. Doesn't cost a thing. Right, and if you're watching this right now, what does that actually mean? It means you got some kind of help from this. And, some other entrepreneur out there, just like you, could get helped by this content too. So share this video with someone. Click that little arrow right there. Share it with someone, it really helps us out a lot. Thank you for joining us and for taking the time to

be here. Thank you, man. And thank you, Diandra. For you having... She was resilient. Yeah. She fought through it. That's real love right there. She was, that's true. She left home to eat potatoes with salt... Eating meat, come here and sit in the AC... even though it's not even that cold today... Well done. And, little detail, I'll tell you this, I've already recorded 160 podcast episodes. There's maybe three, four women at most, who actually stick around, okay? Who make it through the whole podcast. Because it runs pretty long, you know. It's a really long time,

almost four hours. How long have we actually been recording, Gab? It went by fast. Yeah. About three hours and 50 minutes. So, everyone, that's it. That was another episode of the Scaling Secrets podcast, which is VTurb's official podcast. See you next Tuesday at 5 p.m. Thanks for watching. See you soon. Thanks. Hey, thank you so much for watching another episode of Scaling Secrets. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to like it right here, and to subscribe to the VTurb channel, so you can get more episodes delivered straight to your inbox. That's really important to

us. And if you do that, I guarantee you this: I'm going to bring on the best guests I can find, to bring you great content, alright? And if you're looking for more episodes to watch, I'm going to leave two episodes right here, okay? Somewhere on the screen, from Scaling Secrets, for you to check out. So click on those and watch those episodes too, they're worth it. Thanks for watching, and see you soon.