New DMT Experiment Finds 'Alien Code' Hidden in the Fabric of Reality | Danny Goler

[Music] dude last night was one of the wildest experiences I I've ever had I'm glad to hear that it was it was fun to watch you wow dude I can finally say I've done DMT congratulations thank you thank you very much the way you did it too like the way you helped guide us through it and by doing the Wim Hoff breathing up front and like timing out all of the the hits and understanding what to expect like You really made it a super enjoyable and comfortable experience so first of all thanks for doing that

man that was a really cool thing to for me to I appreciate it man yeah it means a lot actually I wasn't that I realized later that I'm not that good of a guide even though I've done it so many times uh and then I put a lot of effort into understanding what it actually requires to guide somebody so it means a lot that you're saying that yeah no no no you you Did a a fantastic job I wasn't expecting all of that sort of like warmup to it so I thought that was great um

and I'm it's kind of been crazy to process over the last eight hours when I used to think of DMT I thought of it more of something you would get from like a marijuana gummy or to like to the extreme but just for a short period of time right like this wasn't and I was I've always whenever I take gummies I sometimes I have like bad trips like my worst fears Creep into my thoughts this was not like that this was Just Smiles like I just couldn't stop smiling and it was just so bizarre getting

catapulted out of my body like that I I I can't I can't really put it into words yet but um it's a Jesus Christ that was wild well again I'm super happy that you had a great experience uh one of the thing you were absolutely right before you do it for the first time I remember mine you can't really imagine that it's possible to go The opposite direction of getting high because with everything that we have weed alcohol well most things even with mushrooms that kind of send you in a similar Direction it's always like

something is drifting away slightly from your senses either up like a little bit down to the sides rarely that do your senses get sharper and like everything kind of goes like you said I see everything more in 3D everything looks more real yes that that direction is not Really familiar to us though yes yeah but that part of it was kind of like an after part that was like an after effect of it cuz like originally after I was at like my third hit I was starting to like feel a little wobbly and then I

did a fourth hit and I was like I felt like the the rocket lifting off right and then the fifth hit I was like almost gone and then by the time I inhale that fifth hit I just like right out of my body just shot right out the top of my Body and I was was gone I was just catapulted through another Universe filled with light cluster like different color lights and spectrums and patterns and the few times I did open my eyes though it was uh it was almost unbearable I was almost scared like

when I when I opened my eyes and I saw the U like bursting with light and then I saw like peripheral like lights coming in the TV I couldn't even see the TV cuz it was just like it was just light like and The overwhelming sound that kind of like drone weird sort of like droning buzzing sound yeah yeah that's that's always there it's weird teren used to say that he thinks that's the sound that carries you inuh that it kind of It Coats everything in the right frequency so you can go there it's almost

like it vibrates your body in the right frequency so you can in in fact experience it so if we're a level of frequencies right and then you can Perceive things on different frequencies it's almost like it brings you to the right frequency to see that is there any other drug you can take where everyone experiences the same things or very very similar things not to this extent no well I don't know if you know this but uh so when Dennis and Terren Dennis and Terence McKenna when they went to laera when they were well I

think 18 and 23 something like that they did this experiment in laera there's teren wrote A book about it then has just released a book about it um and the experiment was around well a few parameters but the sound was one of them then it said that if you can what he thought and you know it's a little bit more complicated to go into the details of exactly what he thought there but the gist of it was if you can bring about the sound with with your voice while this is happening to you inside there's

there's an alignment that's supposed to happen it's supposed To do something that's what they were trying to do so he was trying to mimic the sound that his own voice with his own voice and he was trying to like go through all the octaves and like find it exactly and yeah yeah it's fascinating so there's like a the idea is if you can do that while you're not on DMT no no while you're on while you're doing it they were doing very strong mushrooms troparia cubensis but uh those was strong enough to produce the sound

you Can get strong enough mushrooms that would give you the sound right okay and how is that different from I iasa is basically DMT coated with a different plant I forget the name of it right now which basically allows you to ingest it because DMT uh if you just swallow it nothing happens with iasa when you you know you ingest it you you digest it basically for like five to six hours and it yeah and it lasts for a long time right right but if you're Asking about the first person experience of it I always

describe it as the human channel so like what you saw yesterday was kind of like the main artery just everything right iasa is everything about humans so it's just like I said it's much more carnal it's much more uh I always say the and this is actually I think I I think I stole this from teren to be honest but he was he was saying it's much more carnal it's much more Kind of like the earth and the rivers and uh the human drama like that kind of stuff it it's much more uh what it

means to be a human on earth right it's that channel so there's a lot of wisdom in there that's why people find it so therapeutic I think because it's it's the ultimate context of what it's possible what is possible for a human like for example I had the experience of uh what is the ultimate father once One time so it's almost like it showed me what is this perfect archetype of a father what that means and the gist of it was uh it's the your father will let the perfect father will let you you as

as a male would let you go Full Throttle make all your mistakes so you so you learn how to be a man how all of that but then if you can't go on any longer he got you that's the ultimate father oh wow Yeah he will never let you fall yeah it's got to be so much different when you're when you're stuck there for hours and you have to face it and you can't escape right that's a separate subject but yeah at least last night like I knew this was going to be over like very

soon but with when you're doing it with the iasa and you're where wherever in the jungle and you're going to be deal with this for three or four or five hours that's a totally different Beast yeah But look with iasa this is why you do it with guidance right I mean some people do it without which I don't recommend but I think you're right there's a big difference between experiencing this for 5 minutes and experiencing something like that and then something going a little bit sideways and then you stuck in that sideways right for hour

that can actually do damage yeah yeah yeah like my biggest fear is actually meeting the devil interesting why why is that just When I say meeting the devil I mean just like confronting my deepest darkest thoughts or like the deepest darkest um potential realities you know like like Mike was explaining last night when he acally ate those four cookies he said that he was just like in the fetal position in the corner of his hotel room for like8 hours and just thinking about all the the worst case scenario about everything you know just like in

this state of fear Constantly and that's what that's what I always go to when I get go too far on like a marijuana gummy interesting so let's click on this for a second do you did you come from a religious background like your parents no no so you mean the devil metaphorically or you mean actually yeah no I don't mean like meet Satan I mean I mean just like just go to a place that is what I would imagine hell is Yeah well yeah that's a that's a that's an interesting thing because that Not a

lot of people have this particular fear people have like a specific you know they they're afraid of snakes like they have a very specific fear right yours is much more General about suffering in general it sounds yes yeah yes which is very interesting because it's a very deep uh archetypical component of of that space because ultimately if you look at for example what the Buddha discovered right his whole Teaching was around what you want to do is the way he called it is get out of the house so get out of the uh reincarnation cycle

and he emphasized that you want to do that no matter what so that's the only thing he ever emphasized from a metaphysical perspective out of the Incarnation cycle reincarnation cycle The Reincarnation CLE what do you mean by that so we reincarnate according to the you know to the belief and basically What happens is that the reason you're in this cycle is because of attachment so the the attachment is the fuel that keeps you in the cycle and attachment to even form in general like even if you're you know kind of liberated and you no longer

need much in life and all of that you still have an attachment to form cuz you are a form yes so the idea is that you're supposed to get to a place where you're so the the nonattachment is so complete That in the moment that you die there's not enough Gras grabbing power to keep you within the cycle so you don't you can't reincarnate anymore you're just Nirvana just become you get out of the house it's out there's no more reincarnation for you that's it what's interesting though the reason I mentioned this is because he

said it doesn't actually matter if you're in the depth of of Hell or in the highest of possible Places of bliss mhm it's exactly the same yeah because he said that even if you are so according to the Buddhist belief there are you know all the I think there's like seven layers of Hell there's like I I don't remember how many layers of Heavens MH but even if you're in the highest of heavens and you're the ultimate being there which I guess what we in our Western world would call the God Almighty right you're still

still within the cycle you're still in the House which means that eventually even if you spend I don't know 30 trillion years in Ultimate Bliss MH you burn so much good karma that you might actually drop to the loss of Health still and because it's infinite the only way out is out of the house so it's interesting that you mention that because the ultimate the ultimate way out is to just understand that it's all the same and and it doesn't really matter how Much Bliss you feel or how much suffering you feel if you can

just truly accept the present moment which is what the now is right if you can truly be it you you're Invincible like that that's that's the only thing that you should care about ever right yeah that was a another another weird thing that I felt last night right after I got blasted out of my body after my soul blasted out of my carcass was that was the uh like the feeling of Losing touch with everything in reality like losing touch with like everything I'm attached to in the real world right and just like having the

very core of my existence just catapulted through the universe that was it was such a wild wild experience how real it feels right yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um okay so to open this up you have basically found a tear in the fabric of reality you found a way under the map so as people that play video games would Say I get that's a really good way of putting it yeah yeah yeah can you first of all explain exactly what you discovered and how you discovered it and then we'll kind of like we'll

sum that up then we'll like start from the beginning and then go through lar like a linear fashion of how this all happened okay so in short I basically discovered that there is a way uh there's this phenomena on DMT that a lot of people experiencing similar Things emphasis on similar like very similar but similar and I as because I I've done it so many times I asked myself okay wait a second I don't think there's any possibility at this point for me to believe that this is somehow mindmade whatever we call mindmade right um

and then I asked myself okay well if it this if the space is real is there anything we can do to prove that it's real and one of the first things that came to mind is like well if we can find Something that is exactly the same in that space for everybody that puts us in a good place to start talking about it like a repeatable experiment well repeatable experiment would be the thing that would show you that it's the same I'm saying yeah can we find that one thing in some way that is the

same for everybody that was the thought it took me years to figure it out and we can talk about the details of how I figured it out the end But this one component which essentially is what I discovered if you project a defract laser on the surface which just means a band of the laser just like you know the thing that scans barcodes in in a in a supermarket and you smoke DMT you will see code running in the surface that you're projecting the laser on it's football season and you know what that means it's

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mando and this basically is the same for every single person they see in the beginning they kind of see similar like they see some structures they see some movement they see something kind of like there But then eventually they drop drop into the space where they just see the same thing and we can sit in a room I had 15 people in a room at the same time talking about it pointing to it you can literally talk about it like you talk about an a regular object in a room this is how coherent it is

that's the gist of what I found and how many people have you shown this to that have seen it me personally hundreds of people uh I know of at I Keep saying at least over a thousand that I I just I just wanted to be you know as concrete as possible so I I counted like how many people reached out and told me this is how many people I showed this is how many people saw it so I calculated all of that it was uh at that point it was like 980 people right so this

was 5 months ago so I'm pretty sure there's like at this point it's kind of like this little subcultural thing and people just there's Communities forming around it people kind of talk about it all that stuff yeah so I think this would be a good point maybe we should show the trailer sure let's let's show that to people Steve can you pull it up um it's called The Discovery right just type in the discovery DMT on YouTube you'll find it right let's see what we got here all right full screen that bad boy by the

way I want to mention that pause for a second I'm Sorry uh I I just want to mention that the director of this uh trailer and the film we're working on is uh Aaron venden he's truly is incredible he came up with this thing in less than a week it's just unbelievable I I think uh where credit is do credit is do and it's very important to mention shout out to Aaron yeah all right here we [Music] go I remember things very vividly from a very young age When I was a little kid I actually

spent a lot of time with my grandparents my grandfather was a nuclear physicist I remember he was telling me about black holes and that terrified me I was like that's just mindboggling it's a monster right but at the same time it fascinated me and I said to myself how do we know that this unthinkably massive Thing I realized that nature doesn't keep secrets it's only a matter of do we understand what tools can we use to expand our knowledge and for [Music] me dthy triamine also known as DMT was the tool that led me to

the discovery [Music] When I first saw the phenomenon he was like holy [Music] [ __ ] but then it was actually like whoo what is happening am I losing my mind but then I showed other people and things kept getting weirder just for the record I haven't told him anything okay just tell me what you see oh my God come On wow what the [ __ ] holy [ __ ] I just saw something yeah yeah yeah yeah what the [ __ ] oh I see that I feel it I've been under the influence of

mind altering substance is a lot but I've never seen anything like that whoo I showed over 100 people and I kept asking myself how are all of us seeing the same thing oh my God it changing shapes right there the laser was Revealing numbers and letters running in a pattern almost like this big here and it looks like code it looked like that was a thick laser that's I told something I just want to take a picture of it and translate it wow you see that okay so yeah it's not stuck no it's not because

of the Light No it's it's on its own side light is just literally revealing it and each angle shows you different layers Different ways through it I can see through the wall it's not like a hallucination it has spatial awareness and permanence I don't know wa for centuries mankind has attempted to explore these psychedelic Altered States but we've never had a repeatable testable phenomenon to observe until now wow I'm I'm obsessed it's like you can see through the laser into another dimension I mean like take yourself with That like I I just made a connection

did nobody made before which is a simple connection the claim is if you project a defract laser on the surface and you smoke the Mt you will see code running in surfaces yes like in The Matrix so there are a few possibilities one I lost my mind which is the coolest losing your mind ever in history the second option is that this Is is the biggest discovery of humankind if anybody ever asked themselves what it would be like to know you live in The Matrix for sure well I know for sure I'm convinced so where

do we go from here all I know is it's about to get [Music] crazy so what gave you IDE the idea to throw this def first of all create this defract laser and shine it on the wall While you were on DMT well that's what the movie is going to be depicting basically a lot of it is what are the moves that I had to take to kind of figure it out it took years um basically so the question of whether this space is real is not the first time that anybody's asking this question as

you of course know because you had people on the podcast like gam Moore uh that are literally involved directly With these investigations on on a scale of like actually putting in a lab and you know right uh so that question is already out there I actually wasn't aware that that more serious people asking this question when I asked myself that question uh I just had a set of experiences that were so real so like everything you experienced yesterday I've had it for years right yeah then I had a set of experiences that was one level

above that if you can imagine that Which is it just became like my regular space so I came back from uh actually Meditation Retreat and I'm I always say I'm not sure it's necessarily related but that's how it happened chronologically and something tells me maybe there's something there maybe there was something about the I was uh you know aligned enough pure I have no idea mhm but basically I I I was called to smoke it and smoked a bunch of it and then I realized after about 45 Minutes that I was just staring at the

ceiling nothing happened now that's impossible right I smoked a bunch of it and and then I realized oh nothing happened now there's a phenomena on on DMT called a white out which is that if you smok too much you don't even realize you went like you just have a complete like you don't even realize that anything happened is it possible that that's what happened sure I can't know but I I think I know the space enough to Say I don't think so I think it was just like nothing happened and then after 45 minutes I

had this thought which is something that Terence McKenna said one in one of once in one of his talks he was talking about mushrooms but he said this is not a drug this is an alien disguising as a drug and then I thought wait what what if it's actually not kind of or a metaphor what if it's actually aliens talking to us through these molecules through the Mind space which Is somehow the real space like what if the mind is the real space and this is all just like kind of reflection of everything so then

the second I thought that you know how you have this dial in your brain responsible for how seriously you take a proposition like there's a difference between thinking there's a fire in the house and knowing there's a fire in the house there's an emotional response attached to the second proposition right you're like oh yeah we Got to get the [ __ ] out of here okay right so the proposition is this an actual alien civilization went to full red in my head for a second like I was just convinced of that like the state that

I occupied with my presence was just like oh this is an alien civilization talking to us now I had this thought after 45 minutes of the smoking DMT I did not smoke anymore in that instance everything Fleshed white I didn't smoke anymore I don't even know how that's possible everything just fleshed white like everything and I heard Whispers all over the room it's like it's paying attention what do we say like now it wasn't English but it was I understood that that's what it was right I was like and then a frog dude appeared right

next to me next to my bed and he was as real as you he was tangible he was coherent in space Standing and in that moment I was like okay I think I really did it this time I was like I was just staring at it I was like and then he basically the whole room pointed at my guitar and I I was like oh they want to communicate to like music theory or whatever I like I'm just practicing I don't know anything about that they're like just go to the guitar so got up went

to the guitar pick up the guitar he disappears from one side of The room and appears right next to me like in the speed of light just like right next to me and then he puts his frog fingers where I'm supposed to strum and you know do the cords yeah and he's like do this and I was like and I'm trying to follow and I'm you know I'm still like all shaking up yeah and I'm like so I'm trying to do this and all of a sudden a Melody starts to come on like a like

actual music uh slow because I'm following slowly but It's like clearly this is a thing right and he's like you don't know how to do this I'm telling you how to do this this is real information I'm real and I was like I I was just frozen I was like oh my God and then in that instance the only thing that came out I just excl in the other room I had a Airbnb guest uh was runting out the other room it was a PhD post do uh because I lived right next to UCLA from

Italy his name was Marco and I just exclaimed his name because I I was just like Marco and it was like 2: a.m. so luckily he didn't get up you know cuz I always say like what what would I tell him that a frog dude from another dimension taught me how to play the guitar right so then I was like okay so then he didn't wake up I called my best friend he came over I'm like you got to get here right now he came over and I told him what happened and I'm like like

you don't understand this is real and he goes like and now this this guy we've we've done everything together like we we've went really wild did a bunch of things so he's not new to this right and even he looked at me and went I think you need to lay down and I was like no no no no no you don't understand this is real and he's like he just couldn't he couldn't like he couldn't accept that mhm so then from that moment On when I started doing DMT it was like literally like a phone

call like I would I would do it and they would just appear not always like that frog dude but they would be very coherent in space and they would like explain things to me talk to me and I was like this is insane like and this was going on for like a year right and then I realized I started reading online and I found that this is a thing like some people experience this new level of like talking to aliens like They always come to them like all that stuff in fact there was this one

case that I was mentioned because it was really funny to me here in Florida uh there was this guy uh who was a therapist and this started happening to him which is like he started talking to aliens on DMT and he just dropped everything he just did that fulltime and eventually he had to go quit his job I don't know if he quit his job but he just stopped doing everything he was Doing and then eventually he himself had to go to a shrink oh my God and then the other guy told him okay listen

you're not talking to aliens you got to stop doing that right um but the funny thing is he was talking to aliens that was real it's just that we don't know what to do with that which is kind of like where I landed after about a year of this I was like okay how do we prove this you know I was trying to ask them people ask me who is them well people Like that frog dude like whomever that is right and uh it was very always very esoteric it was never something that was applicable

to our space it was like oh when we jump into your body and you do this the whole room folds in half great what do I do with that right so um eventually I just kind of said okay cool like I'll come visit but that's about as far as I can go with this because I you know now luckily it didn't actually Really infringe itself too much into my regular life I just kept on doing everything I was doing but yeah at a certain point I had to kind of let Let It Go and then

that was the beginning of all of this and eventually because I kept on thinking about this like how do we prove this and this is what the movie is going to be about things started happening to me like hints that would appear things that would you know show up at the right time And I just eventually kind of was led to this conclusion that if you project this laser something is supposed to happen It's the Most Wonderful Time of the Year holidays on the house with DraftKings casino with this season's offerings you'll unwrap everything you

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it started with this initiation of like a very realistic set of experiences that I put it Beyond any shadow of possibility that this is real followed by years of kind of following this weird intuition coupled with my technical understanding of the world right so I have you know I have some understanding of what we know in physics and I'm like okay well what can it be And they started thinking in that direction and when I would reach a certain kind of uh fork in the road there would be something that would happen that would definitely

not you wouldn't be able to fold this into like a you know a methodology scientific methodology because it was like an intuitive thing it's like well I saw these numbers they mean this thing it's more kind of like a long Charlie Day in the basement just connecting dots kind Of thing right right uh but then something would happen there that I felt that was concrete enough and I would follow that and then I would connect other things that I know and I would follow that so the whole time I was doing that it's just a

game I'm playing like it was never serious it was never like I never put it in the Forefront of like I'm figuring out the secrets of the universe it's like you just do your thing mhm and that thing happens great So you know it was a fun game and one day um we were walking in uh uh we were in the botanical gardens in in Colorado with my now fiance and we're talking about I told her about a lot of this stuff and then she you know well she's like all right cool like what do

you do with that right and then we started talking about why plants are green we started talking about like the fact that you know plants reject green that's the only color they don't use that's why They're green um and then I asked why some color why some plants are red and she said well I think maybe that's because they reject red I'm like okay why do they reject red they reject green like that's not clear so we're talking about this stuff and there was a moment where we stepped outside that so I told her that

also the number 42 started following me everywhere okay so that this is what 2 yeah so there there's a lot of Components this why we're making a whole film about it so I'm trying to like keep the story coherent um and this is one of these thing okay so this is actually important to unpack cuz I'm trying to kind of uh you know get through the story quickly but I think it's important to unpack yes so numbers that would appear for you right people see you know 111 on clocks things like that right it's uh

it's a little flimsy because the clock does show 111 and 1111 MH uh like Times a Daye right so about people who experience this thing where they see always see the same numbers all the time everywhere they go exactly there's something significant that happens in their lives where there's there's a number correlated with it and then somehow that follows them for the rest of their lives everywhere they go something like that yeah no there there is this thing right in the brain where if you start paying attention to Something all of a sudden you see

it everywhere just like when you buy a new car you exactly yep right so because of that uh all of these instances of people that follow these like uh very really like simple things like seeing something on the clock right that's not enough that's like okay again it appears four times a day now your brain is looking for it it it's easy to explain this way right when I'm saying the number uh like The number 42 would appear for me it wasn't like that it was in instances that just like Way Beyond the possibility of

just like a statistical fluke right so basically one example would be like I would be thinking about this subject and I would be in traffic and I would lift my head and I would see a truck right in front of me and it would be so dirty like all muddy and it would be one tiny area where just wiped clean and with a 42 written with a Sharpie on the back window like things like this it's a little bit different right that still can be said okay well you know maybe your eyes saw a lot

of numbers in that moment and only when it lands on that that's when you register yeah I accept that that's fine but the first hint did appear for me which is something that uh I didn't tell you yet but the first hint that appear for me was the these numbers on the floor you know the Department of Water and Power they write these uh uh numbers on the on the ground you familiar with that no so Department of Water and Power they write things you'll notice it that now that I told you you'll notice it

uh sometimes on the on the pavement you'll see like random numbers written down with with like a almost like a spray or something oh like on the sidewalks exactly yes okay yeah yeah they represent what kind of power lines or water lines go through that Thing okay so I'm an editor and I was working on a music video and I couldn't fix a color problem for hours so I decided to take a break I went on a stroll it was the middle of the night I went to Ralph to get a sandwich it was right

next to Pierce College I walk around and I'm thinking about this subject which is every once in a while I would think about it like how how do we prove that this space is real one of the things that was very clear to me is that Light had to be involved and I knew because you can see it with your eyes and I knew that there's supposed to be some kind of an entry point to the space in which we're supposed to all see the same thing which is what I told you in the beginning

if it's not clear you can stop me at any point okay even if the space is infinite we all sometimes experience it and sometimes don't experience it right that means that we enter the space Somehow something happens and then you're aware of it right so there's an entry point in which it's supposed to be the same for everybody at least that was my conviction or my thought right so then I knew light was involved so what I was thinking about was the double slit experiment mhm specifically in the context of quantum computers and how they

work and in and the fact that some something happens when decoherence happens in the Double SL experiment is That right before the particle decoheres from the wave function and becomes part of you know whatever is real uh it or at least according to the many worlds interpretation it basically interacts with all the instances of itself across all the parallel universes now this sounds highly theoretical however the only only reason the quantum computers work is because this is a fact okay so this is not not enough people talking about it but according to David doch who

Also is the father of the Deutsch equations who actually made quantum computers possible so he definitely knows what he's talking about that's the only coherent interpretation of what's going on which is that the reason quantum computers work which is you know you can make these enormous calculations in an instance you know anything about Quantum yeah I know a little bit about is because we literally uh distribute the the computation power across all the Worlds so all the adjacent parallel universes to you are doing the exact same calculation as you are in that instance and then

you have an equation that helps you understand what part of the uh of the sliver of possibilities of it occurring this way you are and that's what allows you to do the calculation but the important thing for our story is that basically the fact that quantum computers work tell you that the Possibility that parallel universes are real it makes it a very very real possibility mhm and that's what I was thinking about and then I noticed that the stoplight the way it was changing colors looked different from each color it was the middle of the

night so I had not a lot of things to pay attention to so I noticed that when it changes from green to Red to Yellow the way that the light is distributed on the edges if you squint your eyes a little bit looks Different it's like a different pattern now I knew that there's a lot of possible explanations here maybe the glass seats a little sits a little different maybe they use a different glass for each color who knows right right but the second I thought that in the context of the double slit experiment and

how light behaves I thought would it be possible to utilize these properties to communicate between the worlds would it be possible to send A signal just like when the computers work to actually send some kind of a signal between the worlds and when I thought that I had this very strong sense in me that told me yes look there it was like almost like a person told me that now I wasn't on any substance I was just walking around and it was like yes look there I was like okay the second I thought that I

looked down and I see these numbers from the Department of Water and Power and what was interesting About this particular these particular sets of numbers because to the left of them there was a line with a a circle with a line through it which kind of made it look like a like a u editing software like Premiere or something where you move the dial so I thought oh wouldn't it be cool if this number just matches some kind of a lot number I have you know that will fix my colar problem right but then I

was like ah then I walked away when got my sandwich came Back coming back I'm looking coming from the other side of the street I'm looking to the other side I'm like looked around nobody around nobody's going to see me do this [ __ ] it just go take a picture of it cuz I felt like it was insane right why would I do that right so I took a picture went back home put in the numbers in uh uh in Spotlight now this is important because I didn't Google anything I just literally you know

Spotlight on a Mac the way it works it looks through your computer and then it looks through the web at the same time Spotlight is like the search engine on a Mac oh yeah you just you're basically just it's like a general search I've never even heard of that really um uh command space oh I see what you're saying yeah like the finder thing yeah yeah I see well Spotlight is kind of like uh it's more like the general one yeah yeah yeah got it and I'm actually I'm not sure that the finder searches through

the web I think Spotlight also searches through I'm not sure yeah you're probably right about that so basically so it's a Ser of six random numbers is all I put in and I took a picture of that thank goodness because I don't think anybody would believe me so I took so I just put a six random numbers now think about this it searches through both the web and the computer M what are the chances even if it doesn't Find anything of these exact six numbers it would give you something adjacent some file with numbers that

kind of close to that it would give you something right it will give you five six options okay gave me one option and it was not on my computer it found something on the web from the entire internet and it was a number that matched research paper a physics research paper a physics re research paper by CERN searching for particles outside of the standard model a year after the discovery of theb on particle so I'm sitting there like what was this number you still have the photo yeah I'll show you right now so these are

the original numbers okay okay 081 802 08802 hold it closer to their mic go and and and notice something about the Second number it kind of looks like 081 801 and the only reason you think that is because the first number is the second number of the first number is eight right so you would think it would be consecutive the second one looks like 03 exactly so it either looks 03 or 05 even maybe MH but because the first number is 081 802 you think maybe it's 081 801 right so anyways I searched the first

one doesn't even matter about the second one right now okay you see what I Meant by the circle with the line through it it kind of looks like a dial okay so then I'm searching through the web this is what I got and this is actually it's funny because it's like this is still the music video I'm working on in the background Premiere Stephen can you punch that number in your Spotlight see what happens uh what What's the number 081 802 now it it also changes according to computer into the person and everything But let's

it's interesting let's find out 081 802 802 all right so 08 no no no not in Google not in Google there little magn on Mac that's right magnifying glass command space yeah there you go Spotlight okay 081 1802 uh 08802 okay search hex color it's a hexad color no see mine didn't come up with a hex color even which is interesting let's see here can I zoom in on that search the web um search the web related searches on the Bottom oh [ __ ] I jumped off gasket number is that it the second one

American physical Society press on this one abstract the the Prospect and stereo collaborations present but click on it let's see what the paper actually is okay stereo collaborations combined measurement pure is that what year is this 2022 so this one was from 2015 okay so first of All it is interesting because it also changes from person to person from time to time because it depends on a lot of different factors the way it searches but that's that's why I took a picture of this because this you can't fake this right it's just what it was

okay so then the only other option was the calculator which is not an option right and then this was the only other one for me in that instance that's the Only thing that came up okay so now I have to be honest like the paper itself it wasn't clear to me in the beginning like what what is the even the connection because it was I mean the fact that it was in physics just blew my mind the fact it was CERN blew my mind right but other than that I couldn't really the name of the

paper if you want to pull the actual paper is search for B on pair production I found it there oh there you go yeah there you go there it Is y look at that 0818 02 yeah oh this one's this one's published 2022 though so they do uh the same paper they do like a like another version of it wow so it's kind of like based on and then they do the from what I understand that's how they do it okay right so we probably need a physicist to actually tell us exactly why they do

it this way yeah but so what are they what is the significance of the paper so actually there was no significance to This particular paper as far as results the the gist of it was that they were searching they were trying to see if there are any particles outside of what we know with higher energies outside of the standard model which is the accept accepted uh zoo of all particles that we know about right okay right they found nothing according to the paper Okay further research required all that stuff but there was and this is

what we kind of approaching in the film too there was Some things in the paper which right now I'm actually in the process of going through ex read trying to remember exactly what the trajectory was but there was something in it I think that's something that led me to I don't remember in this one what it was anyways we we'll approach it in the film but there was that's what I mean by the Charlie day looking in a basement like sometimes it's like a split second That you see another thing here and then you go

to another thing right right uh if you what's interesting and we we can keep testing this if you want if you do 081 801 which is the the other number or what you would think the other number would be mhm mhm 801 801 search go down see if the what other p uh physics paper we have you can just do at this point just cuz I don't know if the same yeah you have a lot of just do physics just do physics so it will be Easier for us physics uh paper maybe WR paper physics

topics there we go that should be it yeah physical well this can't be this can't be because 2024 from this yeah but but it it's probably also a revamping of the older papers right try it says yeah yeah let's try it let's go through this two body invariant mass distributions using unsupervised machine learning so this is already something much newer back then you didn't have the all the All the stuff about machine learning right right right but uh so I saved all these papers it's actually on my on my Mac if you want I can

actually pull it up okay I have all these papers saved by these numbers I want want you to try something Steve will find it huh Steve will find it okay cool yeah what other word would I no no no the thing the problem is that they are of different dates that see if you go down on the rightand column are there like Older versions of it the oldest one I think 2013 I think that was the one that popped up yeah I I looked in the previous one and there's no references to older versions like

sometimes it's at the bottom and sometimes it's not right okay of the 801 or 802 well I mean like of this paper like because there there's multiples right mhm and uh but it just seems like this is the like this number right here 128 seems to be like letter 128 of right whatever this got it top okay okay that actually makes perfect sense so this is like a almost like addendums M yeah got it okay great so maybe that 081 1804 is like a lot number and the the 128 is just like the like one

paper that's a part of it or something right yeah well to me to be honest it was uh more the the things that have kind of appeared inside that's why I said if you're going to try and fold it into like if you want to try and Present this way of figuring things out to a scientist they're going to ask you to leave right yeah cuz this is not a way to go I don't I can't follow that as a scientist and say okay I get how what the methodology is right you can't say I

saw something spray painted on the ground then I Googled it exactly it doesn't work well exactly um but what I discovered and this the reason that I keep mention so I have some friends who are scientists and they all Unyousual to remove this from your story even the people who saw the code scientists who saw the is like you really need to remove this part from your story because it hurts your your the spray paint part the spray paint part and then and this whole thing that I'm telling you right now right they say it

look it makes you IM it immediately makes you tune you out like I just H automatic mhm and I get it yeah and it is even correct to do in relation in Accordance to what the way we do things in science right it has to be repeatable I have to understand every step of the way of what you've done and I need to be able to repeat it exactly this way and I need to be able to extrapolate something Universal from it in other words you have to explain to me why you think that these

specific numbers mean anything do you have some kind of a reason to follow these numbers like what is the function behind the fact that you think that These numbers represent something right what is the theory behind it unless you have that you just sound like an insane person and I agree however what seems to be the case and I only much later realize this is because I think that we understand everything this way it's just that we usually take the credit for it so what I mean by that is that we have a set of

intuitions mhm that then lands on a particular concreteness of what we understand about The world but so you have to have a set of understandings first of like certain things and then you make extra conjectures on top of that and he was like what what works this works this works this works you do a lot of guess work and then you have a way to test for a particular set of the guess works that you come up with so there's one branch that seems to be promising and then you follow that branch and you test

it in the most rigorous ways you can possibly Think of and if something checks out most of the time nothing checks out that's how it works when something checks out you're like ah great okay I'll follow and then you build on top of that the fact that something checked out told you that this was the correct direction but the whole time you were following a thread that was not random but it was something that you were basically Conjuring all the time you were like well what can what can it Mean it's like this infinite possibility

pool right and when we dial it into a more uh a narrower and narrower channel of guesswork we call that science you understand what I'm saying so the difference between a rule of thumb which is like I know that when I build a door with this kind of Arc without measure measuring the door and then you try and like align it as much as possible and eventually it works you're like that's a rule of thumb you're like well I kind of Know when it it looks like kind of like this okay it it works right

and then you can even you know you can teach your son this and then that's basically what an expert back in the day was before we had measurements right you just kind of like well I know I have a feeling that this this should work and and then your experience of that door with that Arc exactly like that is right when we discovered calculations and Mathematics and how you measure angles and all that Stuff it stopped being guesswork it stopped being being a rule of thumb it became more scientific because you can put numbers on

it okay so that's really the only difference it's a major difference but that's the only difference notice that you know what people repeat which is like the double helix of the DNA uh even the one of I think it was the first Intel chip that uh that we figured out how to do the exact uh um engineering of the the the Way that the chip is constructed all of this came one in one case a dream the other case is an LSD trip M and this happens all the time people get these Eureka moments out

of nowhere right and they have already have a set of experience sets of expertise on top of which this now Eureka moment comes on top of and they're like ah okay I get it right so this is important because the reason that I can't remove this from the story is because that's the truth about What put me on the path of searching for that thing and if I remove this part of the story I'm lying okay okay see what I mean yeah yeah mhm so and this is a very important clarification because I think that

ultimately what matters if something actually checks out and because if if it would lead to nothing we wouldn't be here talking about this and I would just go you know just keep living my regular life but because I follow this exact way of trying to do Things that's what eventually led me to the laser and it it does put me in a little bit of a hot seat because you know again it's like it's not clear why this works if I have to give it my best guess is that there is this actual information of

about how things are that is constantly floating around and we are essentially just picking them up almost like a radio right and then if we can take that and We can apply it to something that works in our space in our three-dimensional space we call this a discovery because it it's applicable it's you know functional you can do something with it all of that stuff but ultimately this uh this element of the guess work is always there and I I don't want to minimize it because I think that the intuition part of it is important

for something much deeper than we yet to understand which is our relationship to The world what is consciousness how Consciousness is and what it is in relationship to the world all of these things are very important to consider if we are to understand what the world really is MHM so how did you get from these papers to this defract laser so okay so so now that I gave us the a little bit of the background of this so this couple with the number 42 is start following me like crazy right so we're in this botanical

gardens talking about The plants why green why red blah blah blah great stepping outside until that point my my now fiance she she never seen this kind of stuff in action she only heard me talk about it she knew enough about me that that it's fine she doesn't have to leave me um and then we step outside it was a very hot day it was like 115° so I'm calling an Uber to go back to the hotel and she crossed the street to stand Under a tree in a shade okay called The Uber across the

street come and I hug her oh and that feeling that I described to you about like yes look there you know when I when I thought about that idea and something told me yes look in that direction okay the same feeling was in me when we were in the botan IAL Garden it was like yes look there whatever it was about colors and plants and whatever that was okay we step outside called The Uber she's under A tree cross the street come and hug her I hug her I look down and I'm like Kelsey look

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about them and please help support the show and tell Them we sent you enhance every day this holiday season with Vio and I still have the picture of her cracking up the number 42 spray painted right under her feet the same color the same color because it's not always in this color what Department of Water and Power writes the same color and this is now two or three years after I think so now we follow the street the Number for I'm not going to do this now it doesn't matter but I mean if somebody wants

I can always email them the pictures they can verify it we we we searched and the number 42 repeated twice like right one one after another and there were no other numbers that repeated twice wow so what did that tell me so okay so this is a great example what do you do with this right from a scientific perspective this is one person or two people in this case having Some kind of a joint uh delusion about something mattering or something meaning something right mhm but from a first person perspective I'm aware of all these

biases I'm I'm I understand them like I get it right and then I at the same time I have this thing happening to me constantly constantly constantly constantly I'm telling it to this other person which happens to be my loved one we have this experience together you can either just Say oh this was funny and walk away I'll go okay wait a second what is it telling us 42 follow me follows me every time I'm kind of like on the right track from what I understand great she's standing on the 42 she's a key somehow

she's supposed to help figure this out somehow that's what I understood okay and we were talking about it together in the botanical gardens I okay and then we started and this is where again I'm I'm going to disappoint you here because This is still a thing that I'm I'm going through all my pictures and all my files and trying to figure out exactly what the moves were for the film and all of that I don't remember exactly right now but we basically went on this Rabbit Hole together that whole day going through different papers and

she's also uh she does she did a lot of research back in college so she knows how to do this quickly we like you know we go through all these things yeah and we Land the the thing that kept on popping up towards the end was defract light defract light coherent light so laser 650 NM 650 NM it kept on repeating again and again in different papers that we found I was like okay I didn't know what that meant mhm but I was like I think we're supposed to get a laser now that was during

Co so you couldn't really get a laser ironically anywhere from other in China so 42 you were searching for 42 in research papers no no no 42 was just The sign that you're on the right track if you want to follow this line of thought okay got yeah then we kind of started think I I started showing her the other papers and through that together we started going through all the other papers I see again not applicable to an actual scientific method right right but we're doing it we're playing mhm we reach at the end

of this like crazy funnel whatever that was we reach these conclusions which is it's Supposed to be defract light supposed to be 650 NM don't know what that means just order a laser cool okay can't find a laser only in China cuz it's co ironically yeah and it took it like three months to get to us because of Co right everything was backed up got to me eventually and also the only laser I could get is the ones that you have to kind of like wire and do all that stuff you could just get a

laser pointer was nothing like this uh well this is Essentially the same laser inside of the box it's just that we already put the the circuit and everything inside yeah but this is what I was if I show you the original models they were hilarious they were like just look so janky and crazy uh so anyways I I ordered this laser there you go that's what it is this look at look at the original beam how wide it was oh wow see um and this is kind of like first this is what it looked like

you had to Get this you had to like solder this thing I try to put like uh um a microscope lens on top of it like a play with all kinds of ideas for it this is like a really wild they make those ones at uh at Home Depot you can get for people that are like trying to cut stuff you can't use that you can't use that no most of them are too powerful and they are too narrow and you don't have a way to make it wider ah so it's too concentrated you're not

going To see anything okay yeah interesting oh by the way I don't want to waste any time on the podcast but I just I really want to show you how Wild the 42 was so I don't even know if you will understand what's going on here but this is me sitting in front of my on my desk in front of the window and just working crossing my legs and I'm looking in the window I'm like wait what the [ __ ] I'll show you what what is that you're looking at yeah I'll show you a

Piece of luggage no no I'll show you right now you won't be able to see just by twisting it I'll show you it's crazy like this is like we're not talking about like digital clocks right this is like this is what it's reflecting look this is a reflection that I'm sitting crossing my legs that looks like 42 uhhuh look what it actually reflecting this right your pants yeah whoa what the [ __ ] that's wild so [ __ ] like that right yeah so then um so I order the laser I you know it comes

I solder the thing I turn it on I smoke DMT I see code in the surface so in that instance actually maybe not that seriously but maybe maybe a little bit I thought oh it's a schizophrenic outbreak M cuz numbers are talking to me I'm searching for this thing right like uh delusions of grandeur right M And uh I and now I'm seeing this thing also I was in the beginning of my 30s maybe like mid-30s I think it was m so that's kind of the age where it happens if it happens you know what

I mean so we kind of matched now I knew myself enough to know that can't be because I was like I felt normal but it was a real possibility across my mind but then I decided showing other people how did you know to get like right up close to the wall and like look Into it oh no I just saw it from far away you saw it from far away yeah yeah I just saw it right away wow yeah I just saw it right away it was a little blurry to me because I didn't but

I saw something I saw like these like like some kind of a letters or code running or something and I was like what the and then I I already had like a like a long set of experiences that were very realistic but that was a different level that was like a different thing because It just looked normal right and then everybody started seeing the same thing and eventually it just got to a point where I showed like almost 100 people it was like 80 something people and that's when I was like all right then I

started emailing scientists I actually emailed Donald Hoffman which were I I never get to tell him fully what it is I I think soon I probably will but he just was just uh going through like a major some kind of a Medical procedure and he was recovering he was actually he actually reacted it was respond it was very nice mhm um but then he was like well you know I'm just recovering right now and he gave me the list of all his uh uh PhD students is like here these are the people that are you

know under mean and very smart people you should talk to them whatever you want to say MH um I felt like I need to talk to him not to them but anyways yeah right um so yeah that now take Yourself through writing that email what do you say right it's it's not that easy like hey I discovered you know code in the wall um how many different did you reach out to maybe four or five it was uh um space his name right now Gary Alman MH Alman yes yes right the guy who studies UFOs

uh he's he's a cognitive scientist yeah yeah yeah um and uh Donald Hoffman did I reach out to Bernard Castrop I think maybe I have uh Nim uh harmain how do you pronounce his last name you know sure okay and I know you talked to gamore in gallamore yeah I think I reached out to gamore okay and gamore I actually met later like actually went in met he recently was also on my podcast uh super nice guy and um yeah so these are the people that I reach sh maybe actually a few more but the

point is that I was trying to basically go through this you know like Talking to scientists at the same time showing to people yeah and then I was like okay well it wasn't really getting a lot of traction it was just kind of like people yeah what were their reaction what were their initial reactions to it you're saying hey smoked DMT I looked inside this laser and I'm seeing no I never got to that I basically told them look I have I have strong reasons to believe if I remember the wording of the emails they

were Along the lines of I have strong reasons to believe I found something very significant I actually reached out to David deut which was interesting yeah um and uh I would love to just take 10 minutes of your time to explain right something like that and we never got to the point of like I'm me actually telling them what what is the process yeah okay so uh it's it was really interesting because David deuts uh you know he's a really known scientist it's Kind of like like very famous I've heard the name yeah and um

and then I and he was one of my biggest influences as far as like how to think about things these things more concretely but still with an open mind and uh and I reached out on Twitter now X and then and he actually texted me back right away and it was like well uh you you're gonna have to make you make this more publicly known and I'm sure that others can help you but at the moment I can't help you That's what I think what that's what he said which was interesting like why would you

even is he tied to like a big academic institution yes but I never told them the specifics I think it's just I'm not known enough I don't have like a like a whole track record of accolades running in front of me I get it like it's it's not it's not there was no there was never like uh you know hard feelings um but then I decided okay well this is important and also I can't I don't know if I can figure all this out by myself I need to get people's attention so the one thing

I did know how to do a little bit is to make content so I was like well I'll just make a video about it right and uh and I it's the only time in my life where I kind of had some respect to Authority because I I usually don't have a lot of that uh and I was I basically asked inside the DMT space I was like is it okay if I talk about this and the Reaction was inside the DMT space yeah was well just like the Frog dude appears there's someone there oh you

went there and you asked yeah I was like hey is this okay to talk about this and uh the reaction was seemed to be unanimously oh this is not like a secret this is just like it's there like if you can figure it out you can figure it out we can't tell you anything but if you could figure it out great okay so then I started talking about it and at First on YouTube it didn't really get that much traction but it got me enough attention from people that started inviting me to like different events

to kind of talk about it a little bit and that's that's where the journey really kind of started I went to Costa Rica I was invited to this event to talk about that after that I met a lot of people through that uh started talking about it more uh put out the second video and then eventually somebody convinced me to do a Tik Tok Video because I was really not into Tik Tok I was you know and I didn't know this but on Tik Tok actually things go viral a lot easier and with a lot

bigger scale and I was I have to say I was actually surprised with how well-intentioned most people on Tik Tok are so you know that the different platforms they have like a different vibe of whatever that is oh yeah I was really surprised interesting yeah and uh and and when the first video went viral On Tik Tok and it went to a few Millions that's when it really kind of started kicking off that's weird cuz I've never even thought to engage with any Com or even read any comments on Tik Tok ever it's too fast

you know what I mean like yeah and there's a lot of noise just like everywhere else especially because you have a lot of interactions but I found personally the most kind of like balanced interaction of people that are genuinely interested to engage right and With on Reddit everybody just wants to voice their opinion right it's kind of like this very opinionated thing X is similar and I guess it's more mainstream yeah X is almost like a mainstream Reddit basically and YouTube is just a longer game well you know it's a longer longer Arc right so

you have to really kind of like put in the work and put in the years and eventually the algorithm starts to actually YouTube the comments on YouTube are more of like a Competition of Comedy I've noticed that's funny you know because the because the best comments that people like the most go go to to the very top when you're looking at it oh I see I see and whoever's the funest they're ranked from like the most people can relate to it or maybe the most the funniest got it so I feel like that's yeah you're

right there's very a very different sort of attitude and vibe to the comments uh comment sections and the way people Engage with those platforms yeah so the my surprise was that on Tik Tok at least it was the clearly where people like truly engaged in a way of like okay I what is it like tell me like I want to understand instead of just immediately vomiting whatever it is that you think yeah of of course there's that as well right but I had a lot of people that genuinely kind of reached out okay right so

anyway so that that's when I kind of started getting a little bit more Attraction and that's I think it's around the time where Aon vendon the director who is now we working on this film together with he he reached out cuz he said that he saw some of my interactions on Reddit and he liked the way that I was talking to people so then so then we you know he's like hey I want do something with it and then a year after that we met up we started kind of reconstructing what all this whole thing

is by then there was already kind of Like this thing going where there was these communities and people were talking about it and people making lasers and exchanging notes so people on Reddit were doing were trying this experiment on themselves yes wow yes not just on Reddit everywhere everywhere yeah and I think now the reason you and I are talking is because of aon's work because he put out this trailer on the film that we're working on about this and that's when I I made it just Available on YouTube and I was actually thinking about

whether I should put on Reddit or not and before I could even decide somebody it wasn't me somebody put it on Reddit I think it when high strangeness uh subreddit M and that's when it started blowing up it just started and it spilled into X and everywhere okay so so what do you think you're seeing inside that laser or what are you seeing first of all like what do it look like And what do you think it is okay so first of all you see kind of like kind of like in the movie The Matrix

you see Japanese Katakana characters mixed up with some uh I guess what looks like Hebrew letters with some with some regular numbers Hebrew letters it again all of these are approximations okay they're not any of these things the closest things it looks like okay I see you're saying Japanese and Hebrew and and numbers something similar to that Yeah I don't are you familiar with the I never know how to pronounce it the KET carrot report c a r e t I think it is no so somebody put out yeah I'll just show you this oh

yeah you can fill it up report I think or a project what is it go down go down no no no no no uh uh just do ask ask uh do you have J Chad jpt here oh he can pull it up yeah we have it oh yeah yeah just ask Carro report pal Alto uh Alien Drone it should it Should tell you immediately what it is okay okay okay okay carrot ET report report Palo Alto Palo Alto Palo Alto uh Alien Drone Alien alen Drone yeah so it's correct application research yeah this is commercial

applications research for extraterrestrial technology documents first released online in 2007 by anonymous source known as Isaac detailed alleged Advanced alien technology Supposed to studi at the palato laboratory called pacl in the 1980s according to Isaac the carrot program focused on reverse engineering alien aircraft to develop civilization uh civilian applications from alien technology provided technical illustrations symbols descriptions and anti-gravity drones quote that claimed were based on extraterrestrial designs with symbols allegedly functioning as a form of self executing code embedded in The aircraft's structure right there's been um there's been UFO um alleged UFO crashes and debris

that have been found that do have inscriptions on them have you ever heard of the um there's been like UFO crashes even Roswell was one of them where they allegedly they have um pieces of or debris of these crafts that they're finding that have inscriptions in them I need to see it because I've people tell me all kinds of things and Steve type in Uh type in uh do another tab type in Roswell crash R whale crash yep um in uh what would you use symbols symbols yeah try that go to images im images okay

uh are these them Roswell incident this is not what I remember keep going maybe zo oh yeah so I've seen yeah see where that uh that piece of metal is right there at the bottom well it is it is like these okay so this is Similar to what you're seeing no it looks like in what you just saw in the carrot report very similar to that if not the same trying to find if if you look in the trailer in the beginning there's a piece of paper do a free frame on the trailer yeah you

see the paper okay wow is this so this is what you're seeing no this is just the M keep going through you'll see so uh yeah right there on the left see on the left I'll show we'll let it play Through gosh that looks just like Stargate oh wow pause uh it as soon as it came into focus it yeah yeah I'll just show you the he cut it I have it all right there oh wow okay so this is the image okay text it to me and I'll text it to Steve you can put

it on the screen cool oh I see is you got like a symbol on the left but then you have like your interpretation here I'll just yeah exactly I'll just show you the I'll just Send it to Danny right now uh so the reason I mentioned this is because to be clear it was never substantiated if this report was real or fake which by the way if it was fake it's one of the greatest fakes of all time um towards the end Steve there's more paper at the end pull it up right now almost yeah

so that thing on the left oh by the way I have uh also text You all the stuff from carrot cuz I have a bunch of the images okay I'm just going to text you all of them so you can later look at them uh oh here it is okay great so we have everything here here we go are you going to send it on WhatsApp yeah I think that's the fastest so um so okay you can pull it up I now there last night after I uh after I basically came back into my body

after Like the most extreme part of that trip I was kind of like more in reality things were obviously like I was experiencing more of like a threedimensional world the edges were crazy um but I wasn't like hallucinating or anything I wasn't like seeing things moving or whatever and I I went over there and I looked into the laser and I looked through the laser and it's clear that you could see a pocket of space so we shined on a door a white Door and behind that door there was a a very obvious pocket of

space behind the laser so I could see like a cavity behind the door and what I saw was essentially the best way I can describe it is like millions and millions of little gears all connected and spinning and they were they were so tiny they were like specs like static MH it was like like a millions and millions and billions of these gears just turning yeah and all connected to each other Yeah okay so there's a okay so I I do okay I'm yeah I I have to go into this because because this is very

important okay so first of all yeah if you can if you can test this to Steve so we can actually talk about it in real time yeah so there's two things here let's just keep them in view one is what we talk about like what we're seeing inside I think it is which is what I'm going to say now and then I want to talk about the beginning of what you saw because It's important to mention all the other to steal man the other side of the argument because physicists would tell you well listen buddy

this is just the speckle effect which is an effect that you can see which is the same even without any DMT when you look at the laser it kind of looks like this glisteny thingy right and you can totally imagine how with a very the heav Psychedelic known to men it will come to life it will be animated in some form Okay great so that's that's a powerful argument okay so first of all this is what we see in the according to what I'm saying this or what everybody is seeing the sayn you kind of

see these like uh like these mandelas and then when you look closer they made out of these Japanese looking things which is actually when you look at the the carrot report uh uh images it looks almost identical to that I don't know if the report is real even But whatever it is the language looks very similar and something in the report that was very interesting the claim there according to this Anonymous person the person basically claims that he he worked in pal Alto in this La lab on these recovered uh Alien Drone that had these

symbols on them okay and then he talks about the so if you look at the map you see these Maps uh second from the left yeah right there if you arrange them in the right map like this for Example can you punch in on that it will create some kind of a function you see how it's fractor like and it goes into like these all these functionalities so if you know what to do you know what they are and you know what they represent you literally can code a physical material to do something so specifically

for example you have a craft that can create anti-gravity I'm just pulling it out of my ass right now but let's say it can create anti-gravity With the right amount of mag magnetic field around it let's say okay it wouldn't be able to do it without the right arrangement of the symbols of the map like this on it only when you put this on it goes ah okay now I I'm doing this thing you see what I mean so the code is so sophisticated that when it's designed when the environment that it's designed to operate

in recognizes recognizes recognizes these symbols to be in it it instantiates the function Automatically without you needing to put it in some kind of a the the the hierarchy of everything we do in computers so like right now you would have to put something in the on the screen you code something in it goes through all the levels through the compilers into the logic gates that executes a function and then there's an output and these outputs you receive back as either a calculation an image whatever it is right that's how Computers work at the moment

so you don't have to do any of that the proposition in this report which I found very interesting and somewhat accurate to what I kind of already gather from the space is that the code is so sophisticated that it can literally code for the functionality of itself without you needing to put it through this chain of commands you literally it just the environment knows that it needs to do that when this code is present so you Can write with a sharpie the right arrangement of these characters on a certain surface that surface will now know

it is functioning differently than what it does usually does that make sense I mean what you're saying makes sense yeah I just don't I don't that's that was so I wanted to mention this okay because I found this very uh relevant to how the code can potentially be coding for everything because what you see in the laser is Very similar to this so it would make sense that if the entirety of SpaceTime is this environment that is designed to receive this code if you put this code in the right Arrangement you can do anything with

SpaceTime you just need to understand what it is you need to know the Rosetta Stone you need to know how to code okay does that make more sense yeah okay so now all of that is like out there in the clouds crazy the propositions okay now Let's bring it back to the second question that that well not question but the thing you said what you saw was these rotating little things and like I said it is absolutely a strong case to make which is like yeah you have this like stochastic pattern just repeating pattern and

it's somewhat glistening so you already have some kind of a uh illusion of a movement because when you move your head around the the the projection of laser everybody looks kind Of like something is moving and now you're on this very powerful psychedelic so of course it's going to look like it's doing something right the thing there is that and this is hard to communicate if unless you've seen it yourself but it's the specificity coupled with its complexity so you it's highly specific and everybody sees the same thing and it's highly complex and everybody sees

the same thing the coupling of these two Qualities so if you would just have for example something um highly specific but that specific thing would not arrange itself into more complex patterns for example like if you would only like see like little things that kind of look like letters but they kind of like shiver in one spot you know then I would say yeah like then that that explanation that we just mentioned that is just like a speckle effect that Jitters and then you have a psychedelic substance now it Makes sense but because it creates

also extremely coherent structures that are much larger even without you moving your head or doing anything else and everybody sees that EX exactly the same thing now you have a slightly different relationship to it okay also another thing to mention is that there is a quality to it which is the first video I put out about it I didn't really know what to call that quality so I called it epistemologically Sound which just what I meant by that is that the way it appears communicates to you that it's real like there's a there's a rigidity

and insistence of itself to be itself the same way that everything else in regular space operates so like would you postulate that this can possibly be hallucination this mug right now no why aside from the fact that you know that nothing happened it should suggest that this should be a Hallucination but but there are specific qualities of this let's say we would have well technically it technically is a hallucination right because our mind our brains create this there's like the what gamore talked about was like the the brain filter hypothesis hypothesis is that our brains

are filtering reality and into a way for us to be able to survive and get through the day and to function as human beings kind of like what we're talking about last night with Evolution how Evolutions correct in fact his book reality switch Technologies is one that I always recommend all the time to people I think it's right behind you the blue one yeah great book it's a great entry point because it explains really well even without anything that I'm saying why specifically with DMT which is what he's explaining in the book it's very difficult

to explain it away as a hallucination in terms of what we understand about neuros science and How the brain works which is exactly what you said yes that that the brain mostly ignores information it doesn't project information so it already has World models it's a filter to help survive it basically prevents information from coming in unless the information disagrees strongly with what the brain thinks is going on then it goes whoa whoa whoa It's not what I thought it was and then it goes like there's an error signal and then it Correct it goes it

searches for adjacent World models or in in the world model like adjacent structures like ah okay it moved to the left no problem so now it will correct but the brain is not like you're receiving information from the outside like a camera it doesn't work like that the brain projects a guess work it's almost like a a model of the world and as long as whatever is coming from the quote unquote outside we're not going to get into that what that means At the moment but whatever it is that is we call physical as long

as it agrees with what the brain thought it was the brain just ignores that information so everything you're seeing in the room room right now but this is important I know you know this but it's important that listeners understand this this is a crucial point that everything you see in front of you if you're just staring at a static room like if you whatever like this ruler Over there whatever that is my brain has a whole set of neurons responsible for particular angles that are that exactly positioned this way yeah particular colors particular uh textures

and it just projects all of that as a model yeah and everything that's coming to me right now from the room you are when you don't move too much like just this way literally everything all the photons are coming in informing my brain about what's going on right now my brain Ignores because it's exactly what it thought it was so it just projects from the inside the model and that's all it has to do it actually preserves energy this way yes when something surprising happens if all of a sudden a crow is going to fly

into the room the brain will go who I didn't expect that there's going to be a neurological there's going to be some kind of reaction of my body but also the brain will go away I didn't expect that to happen it will allow more Of the information from the outside to inform what is going on because now it has to pay atten to what's going on cuz it's new it's not what I thought it's going to happen but a brain have seen a crow before so in that instance it'll be like yeah it will be

surprising for an instance but very quickly my brain will go okay I I get it like a crow fluid right okay but if you have something that is so outside of the possibilities that the brain has ever seen before like The DMT space it's going to start struggling because it doesn't have World models for that he's looking through all its documents and going this is not this is nowhere we don't know what this is we don't know what this is so it goes into into this like and we didn't we didn't sort of climb a

ladder to we didn't like we didn't start from point A and like gradually go get ourselves to point x right we're just jumping from a to X MH so we're not building that understanding Or that that scaffolding if you will that's a great Point that's exactly what it is it just kind of surprising and it's an island of information versus versus a map of information exactly so why are we saying all this is because I discovered from Anil Seth book uh Seth's book uh being you mhm uh that there's a term that that cognitive scientists

actually use that exists it's called objectness not objectiveness objectness it's it's uh used to Describe the repertoire of all the qualities that a real object in three dimensional space has so this is almost like an unfakeable bill now I'm sure soon with VR we'll be able to fake it but it's actually very difficult for a good example of this is that people that have synesthesia and this is something he mentions in the book uh people that have uh you know they associate colors with particular numbers or their senses cross paths right so you can induce

Synesthesia with synesthesia with psychedelics but some people are born with it or they had an accident and all of a sudden it happens and sometimes they would see colors that are not there so to speak like it's just projected from the brain but nevertheless people with synesthesia never confuse synesthetic colors with regular colors because real colors have objectness there's a certain way that ambient light hits these objects that when your brain Is projecting it from the inside it looks different it doesn't have the same repertoire of of of all the qualities that threedimensional space provides

does that make sense okay so the code for all intents and purposes has this quality of objectness you can't touch it that's true but that's the only thing that is missing everything else behaves like it has objectness it you move your head around it it doesn't care you you it's just you're going to see the Parallx effect just like you would with a regular you even move the laser and it stays still oh yeah it stays still it well it stays with its own motion on its own side it doesn't care about what the laser

is doing right so it literally looks like you shining uh it's in in a pitch black room moving a flashlight around exposing things and actually the best description I've ever heard was by this woman who saw the Cod she said it looks like we're looking through a Microscope and that was the closest description that I've ever heard like literally you're looking into a new world you're looking into a new dimension and it just does what it does now it is also important to mention to be quite fair is because even gallamore himself as far as

I know he never he never tried it yet but he did say in a few on a few occasions that actually seeing language is something very common and we know all about it he did say this He said that with a lot of Psych we see language I think and hopefully he will try this soon enough when he's see it he's cuz I know what he's talking about I've seen that too it's not like that and I and it's hard for me to point to it because you know gallamore is a world expert so if

he thinks that there's no distinction there I I have to kind of say okay like if it'll be anybody else then I would say oh you don't understand but you can't tell Andrew gallamore he Doesn't understand he definitely understands right so I think it just an experience thing he needs to see it and I think he will see immediately why it's different it's not like what people see when they on MDMA sometimes and they see these languages kind of like moving on surfaces I think it's actually related but the way it appears is very different

it's uh these these languages and codes are much more kind of like subsumed they're u a little bit more smudged you Can actually change them with your attention if you if you try you can actually change the content of what you're saying with your attention you can make it into numbers you can make it into different languages I've tried yeah but not with what you see in the laser you can't change that it doesn't matter what you do I had come in from all walks of life and they're like oh I I bet you I

I I can figure it out I I can do something to it change it whatever Nobody could do it you can't change it no matter what which is one of the one of these things I'm trying to do now to see if there's anything physical I can do around it to induce a change to the code in the way that you and I would agree on because if I can do that that that that's it like at that point you have like a level of confidence about it that is very of a different very very

different flavor cuz if let say I can turn on a very powerful magnet around The diode mhm and because of the Zan effect which just creates suborbitals in the elements I would see some departure of what the code is doing and you and I would agree that we see the same departure either in content or in the way it behaves not only then now you have a much higher level of confidence that this is real but also you can start now start trying to map what does that mean in relationship to the code CU if

the code is related to what the physical World is doing or maybe it is the physical world then if we know quite a bit about magnetism for example so if I turn on the magnet and it does X I can ask myself what does this function that I see the code is changing mean in the context of what I understand about what magnetism is and if I move the magnet if something changes more I can start literally creating a Rosetta Stone of what I think the code is doing okay you see what I'm saying yeah

yeah so what Else did Andrew say about this specifically did he have any like um like suggestions of other ways you could sort of try to experiment with this or as far as I know corroborate it as far as I know Andrew didn't really say much about it uh he I I can't guess why I my best guess is that he's actually really busy he He is building this new thing with uh um with Dennis McKenna and uh I think it's notics so they're working on something big yeah yeah yeah so as far As I

know he's very busy with that um and maybe he thinks that uh because of this Association he has with something that he thinks that he really knows about maybe he thinks it's not important enough that's my best get I don't know right but as far as I know he wasn't making any suggestions or anything like this I do know that a couple of people associated with that side of the project saw it I don't know if I'm supposed to mention them I don't Know if they want people to know who they are but for a

fact I know that two people saw it okay okay uh one of the reactions was I don't know what to do with this which I found very interesting because usually scientists who have a good idea of at least what basket to put things in right but the reaction was I don't know what to do with this so now I want to mention that I actually am not relying on the laser me personally at all To to establish my claims for myself because what started happening to me personally after I discovered the laser is you know

transcends any bound of like a there's no more Shad of doubt in my mind that this is in fact what's going on because of what started happening to me personally one of these things is well I call it now the console but I I don't I'm not sure what else to call it but a few months after I built the laser I smoked the Mt and a computer console Appeared for me like straight up like like imagine Tony Stark augmented reality menus just open in front of you MH they are coherent in space they behave

like a real object uh I can interact with them to some degree I can kind of pull them with my attention they just hover in front of me in space I released a video about this in which I also created a little 3 uh 3D illustration of what it looks like right and uh and I'm now working on a second Video with the also a virtual reality expert is helping me to build like the more robust how long does it stay there for you after you smoke the DMT no it's it's just there until DMD

dissipates the whole time it just appears immediately roughly how long 20 minutes it stays there for 20 minutes even after like the most extreme part of the trip so for me the so they also changed something about my experience of the molecule too okay yeah so basically there's I don't Experience what you experienced yesterday okay I don't experience that anymore oh interesting this is why I'm a little jealous because it sounds amazing so you built up a tolerance I don't think it's tolerance I think they shifted something about my my way of seeing the space

so this is where I want to make it very clear we're entering kind of like you know you kind of have I call it you kind of have to take my word for it land so I don't expect anybody to Take this on board too seriously but that's my experience my experience is that um basically and I saw this one time I saw other people flying into the space physically like I saw other people flying into the space and there's these snake like looking objects they're not snakes but they're kind of like you know like

a pipe thingy that comes on with almost like VR glasses and they just come on from the ground and then they Meet the person that flies into the space and they just they basically like puts on like entertainment like just meets you and then shows you whatever okay okay and I saw beings or whatever they are they were like keep going about their business so what I I assume what I deducted from that is that they are basically like people things are flying into their space all the time cuz it's kind of like main main

frame and what they do is that they have these Entertainment human system so they don't so so people don't not just people but other beings they don't interrupt whatever they're doing cuz otherwise it's just chaos right so then it's like almost like for toddlers it just like comes on your face and you're just like sitting you're watching a movie okay and then you come down as far as I know these go Goggles don't meet me anymore so I'm so I'm seeing the real space what it actually is okay okay and I know of other people

that are experiencing a similar thing and maybe there's a lot more that are not talking about that I'm not sure but there's actually a difference between what you experience like what you described and actually seeing it the space for what it is okay okay so now in addition to all of that I have this console appearing for me that is like extremely realistic and it's there in space and it's always happens like 100% At a time and recently I've heard about this guy uh Tom Matt I don't know if you heard of him Tom Matt

M A tte okay yeah all right yeah so he uh I'm actually supposed to have a call with him tomorrow as far as I know um but uh he basically had some kind of a also interesting story about a decade ago he had like a mental breakdown from just doing a lot of drugs mhm but he was like a you know family man as far as I remember from his story he was like a uh I think advertisement company something and then he just dropped everything cuz he you know basically had to I don't know

if he got a divorce but basically his whole life fell apart right right right and then uh he went he was homeless for a while and then he he had to rehabilitate himself because he realized okay if I want to be taken seriously I have to really rehabilitate myself MH there you go and there's something it calls upsite okay and What's interesting is that what I'll tell you what it is right now an ability stayed with him after he completely rehabilitated himself MH which from what he's describing sounds very similar to the console but he

sees it all the time he can just choose to see it without any substances I broke my brain with drugs that's pretty metal most people who have lost their minds never find their way back to tell the story I was Lucky not only did I find my way back with lots of help I found something more more mind than I know what to do with I no longer believe insane things but the way my brain works has fundamentally changed and the better wow so basically I think he can pull the console that he calls upsite

on just by command like he can just do it without anything without anything now I the reason I mentioned him is because when I read what he or I heard him say it I forget but I either Heard him say it or I read it somewhere where he said that he was working with uh Dean Raiden and uh the way they tested one of the first things they did to test what he's claiming is that they checked his eye track okay and I never thought of that that's brilliant because when your eyes move throughout the

room without looking at anything they would go through sads so they would just like jump right yeah Okay but if you're tracking an object your eyes won't do that they would just Glide yeah so if he's seeing something real that's how you begin to test for that so at least real for him like it's an actual thing that is moving yeah so that's one way that I can for sure substantiate that I'm looking at something real because literally the thing is just hovering in front of me now I understand that it's a little underwe ing

for just somebody else to Tell you like well I'm seeing this thing it's like okay but you need to understand this thing is so realistic like it's not like I I was just standing there in my mouth was just open and Kelsey was next to me she was like what's going on I was like give me a second I couldn't believe it it was like this egg-shaped object that appeared and then it opened like slices of orange like or like a flower and then a Podium came from the middle and arranged itself Into these different

screens a suit that was hovering in front of me pair of gloves and a VR glasses uh uh Carousel that was spinning on my leg like a VR helmet straight up like like just like real real real like imagine just this you know glass kind of hovering in front of you I can walk around it like a coffee table like it's not moving some some some parts of it are not moving like the main body of the console and then the some sets of Screens follow me around like whenever I walk it just follows me

around so that coupled with the fact that well I asked I asked directly like what does this all mean does this mean did you make this space and one time they just showed me so I was shown that explicitly that that's actually what's going on so my conviction comes from there not from the laser the laser is just the only thing That I can show you okay but I know this for a fact because I've literally been shown this so I don't expect anybody else to take this on board because somebody else was shown but

the laser I can show you and it's something that you can repeat and now I'm trying to see if I can also create some kind of a coherent change to the code in a way that others would agree that that's what's going on what other have you thought of any Other possible ways you can introduce different elements into this like you were talking earlier about magnets or or any other ways to change the experiment to see if you can see something else or are there any how do you plan to push this like to the

next level uh the only way that I that it comes to mind is that I have to prove that that's possible like I I have to be able to produce another thing like another result of some sort that is Coherent and reproducible yeah that's the only way because I spoke see here's my experience with this I thought that the second people going to see the co because I saw the reactions everybody would just like mind blown I thought oh all I have to do now is to show this to like you know to some scientists

game over right not the case because your brain is still I I discovered that this insistence of the brain to maintain the Previous frame is so strong the amount of effort that it probably requires to reformulate and reframe the world in a fundamental way is just too much to it's too much to postulate unless you have very strong reasons to do that like you don't have any other way any other choice right so I showed it to a few scientists and same thing mind blown holy [ __ ] next question what do you do with

that what you just ask me what are you planning to do about that it's never Like how can I help to it's never so it's like and then I thought of it was like oh I get it like in the end of the day you have to get up you have to go to work you have to do your thing what animates us every day is we like the big questions but what animates us is the immediate future so you and by the way when I say the immediate future I mean even your next 50

years in in in the terms that we're talking about here right so your immediate future even your The rest of your lifetime in the context of what I'm saying now I call your immediate future obviously the next month the next year people who are better at planning maybe a decade maybe even two decades as far as Investments or whatever but that's about it nobody thinks in terms of 200 300 400 years because they're not going to be around who cares right I want to enjoy my life totally get it there's something about understanding you know

the true Like the deeper qualities of reality that requires this recession from the self like you actually have to remove yourself from the picture and try to see the bigger picture for whatever it is that is actually possible for Humanity and that is something that I guess psychology is not that easy to convince to do like your psychology is just like no I I just want to yeah have a nice vacation have some fun have self-preservation self-preservation Self-care and again it's also very important it's I'm not saying this in any negative vein this just the

State of Affairs right so then I realize oh it's on me there there's no like unless I can show something that a scientist can just take it's like oh I see okay so you're saying I can reproduce this let me test this then scientists will get involved at the moment I mean the testing the laser in a lab is easy right you can just put 200 300 a thousand people put Them all in Extended State drip yeah how how do they how do they do that with IV yeah okay yeah yeah and then and then

put the laser in front of them tell them nothing right have a placebo group no tell them tell them nothing right right right okay and then double blind right yep just run with it do a th 2,000 people obviously will take time but it's easy to do right and then you just run the numbers like who says what at what point something appears for Somebody who told nothing at one at what point something appears for somebody who you told what to look for right at what point something appears to the people you told something else

on purpose to throw their scent off which I've done sometimes I would tell people like hey you get I forget what it was but like I would tell people something else and they would come back and they would say oh I didn't see what you said but I saw these weird Japanese looking things yeah Yeah what kind have you gotten any any people that you've talked to H has has there been any um reasonable push back to what you're saying or someone trying to explain this away in a way all the time yeah and what

has been the most compelling argument that you've heard uh I've never heard a compelling argument based on an actual experience and that's important so people try to explain it away in terms that they they simply use what they already know which is not the Case here because it's not something you know so the speckle effect is something that people immediately jump to the speckle effect yeah the speckle effect is the shiny stuff that you see on the laser right which is the thing I said like and they're saying so if you just if you're sober

and you look into that laser you see those Speckles right that kind of staticky stuff yeah and um it's not necessarily moving in a way that it would move if you were just on any sort Of hallucinogenic drug so if you're if I'm looking at you and I'm taking DNT you're going to be moving around there's going to be colors it's going to be animated right so they're saying that it basically makes sense that if you're looking at it in this state of course these speckles are going to be animated and look like this mhm

so so I guess the relevance of this is does this actually Advance Humanity in any for shape or Form is there something about this that we can do something with that helps the world in some way and by the way understanding that this is the truth if it is the truth is squarely fits within the description of helping Humanity because if it's true we want to know it either way whatever it is right um because you know with all the biggest discoveries in the beginning it's not really clear if it's ever going to be applicable

to the to our world like Quantum mechanics it was never like in the beginning it was not clear to anybody that it will ever have anything to do with our lives but within a decade from its Discovery it allowed for some things that were very that completely shifted a reality like computers or lasers actually right so you couldn't do any of these things without understanding of quantum mechanics but at the bottom of it it just looks like this like super like what right like What do you even do with that right yeah so how do

you apply this I have no idea but ultimately it would have to be the cash value of it like you would have to be able to do something with it understand something with it well not necessarily there's lots of research projects that go on there's lots of not not as much nowadays a lot of it's secret but there's I mean there's like blue sky research right people that just dump billions of dollar not maybe not Billions but like millions and millions of dollars into things that they don't know there's going to be like like just

exper like an like experiments that um trying to figure out what happens with things or or developing technology or doing experiments like remote viewing is an example where they don't know if there's going to be there's never been like a proven uh result that's profitable from it right but there it's worth Throwing x amount of millions of dollars towards it to see what happens for the just in case there's a 1% chance we can learn something about it that will put our the United States in a dominant position on a global scale or like a

glob so you're so you're saying exactly what I'm saying that that's would that would be the potential applicable thing yeah you're looking for it because you want to see if there's a potential to apply to something that's that's what I Mean so at the moment this is so first of all you have to lift it from the maybe so for me it was lifted from the baby maybe to the sure mhm but you have to lift it uh on more global scale on a more cultural General scale and especially for the scientific cuz you might

need to literally redo almost every scientific experiment on DMT to see if there's something there right yeah right well what so what is the point of galore's study that he's Doing the extended state DMT the dmtx as far as I know uh well there's a few uh points of contact with applicability but one of them is uh to see if the if there's a way if there's a way for people to create World models that would make that space more coherent so they can actually engage with it with a more uh in a way that

will allow us to draw more uh actual information from one of the problems with DMT as you experienced Yesterday it's that it's so confusing and bamboozling is that there's not enough time for your brain to make sense of it in any shape or form the qu one of the questions that they're asking as far as I understand it is is it possible to send people there long enough that the world is going to start creating World models that are related to that space so you can start making sense of that space as much as it

makes sense of our space right and then you can start interacting It with a way that you can actually study it that's one of the that's one of the ways they're trying to aim for right um I'm sure there's a lot of other things uh and I'm sure that there's also things they're not talking about but that's that's one that I can think of that is very uh I think uh very worth doing yeah because I think it's that's the important part I think like understanding if this space is real how do we interact with

it in a way that we Can actually understand and do something with and connect with one of the most uh beautiful ideas I've ever heard uh gamore outline I think it was in his first book which was that what might be happening and I think that there's a very good chance that it's exactly what's happening is that there's this infinite informational space or computational space whatever you want to call it and then things arise conscious units Arise within it and whatever the local environment that they have is there's going to be a bubble around which

they're going to build their world around so if imagine like just Infinite Space right and then there's even the the regularities of their immediate space for us will be the three-dimensional space right is still the local group of whatever is happening there if you move a little bit more in the in the in the in the world model World in the in the in this uh mind model world you're going to have a completely different set of rules maybe even completely set of experienced laws of physics but if you're here then the the central nervous

system will start interacting exploring whatever that is build World models related to this tiny B bubble because it has to preserve energy it can't have it can't use infinite energy and then it just stays there when a civilization reaches a Certain level of comfort let's call it where it can postulate more things has more time to think about the you know the larger implications or whatever that is it builds tools scientific tools all of that and it starts Pro outside of its own uh local bubble and in the beginning it's because the rest of it

seems chaotic in relationship to whatever is inside it's just seems like soup like nonsense but if you reach long enough you might reach another local bubble of Coherence of actual uh structure and now but it's very alien to your structure so now you have to learn how to interact with it but you have to stay there long enough with your attention to be able to retain anything of of value that you can then translate to something that will become part of your uh tapestry or or or or structure so in order for you to understand

what that is you have to stay long enough there right familiar with you're going to neglect what's happening Here at the same time not necessarily you might be able to fold both of them into view so like be able to interact with both of them at the same time but it will because your your genes already have enough information to keep you tethered here right that's what builds your body and what keeps you here right but then your mind is exploring on and maybe you can actually start evolving not just in this space but in

this space and that space at the same Time so that I think that can actually be of of a very interesting thing because I think what computation is is actually a process of a higher dimensional uh value so it's like a computation is completely orthogonal to the laws of physics it's not arising from any law of physics it's just possible you can compute with the waves of the ocean if you want it's just going to take forever so the fact that you can send signals in a binary in like zero One so just an a

state of two State a possible two State situation and if you can do it in a particular uh uh Arrangement it will do something right and that is a very difficult thing to grasp if you're not on the end of like trying to actually build this thing or think about it a lot but it's not arising from any law of physics now physicists would insist that computation is a physical process because you always have something physical happening when Computation is happening right but I feel that that's a slight uh begging to question kind of things

the same way that people insist that Consciousness is just whatever the brain is doing I think it's a confusion of the terms because Consciousness is not what just what the brain is doing Consciousness is the experience of this right you can say that whenever the brain is doing X you experience this whatever that is and when brain is doing Why you're experiencing that other thing that you're experiencing but to say that they're the same it's that somehow this whatever you feel inside is expressed can fully be expressed in just what the cracklings of the brains

are doing I think there's a mistake I think you can say there's somehow the same thing looked at from different perspectives but then you have to explain what are these two different perspectives in the same way I feel that Computation the abstraction of computation is actually something that floats floats free of a substrate so it doesn't matter that you're going to have a physical thing happening you Pro if if what I'm saying is correct then you would be able to do computation even in non-physical systems is just a matter of finding something that can actually

do the one and the represent the one and the zero and then do the computation with that so and that's important Because if if it's true then computation is truly a universal thing which will also explain why after we discovered computation we're capable of doing so much more sophisticated things with it than you would ever be able to do if you would just try and make manipulate physical matter there's only so much you can do with just the technical stuff of the physicality of the space right and there's so much more you can do by

playing with computation even though you Need to instantiate it in physical objects build computers but the actual function of computation I think is completely free of substrate okay so the relevance of this to to everything I'm doing and I think to what is going on now is that to understand that the reason I went on this whole explanation about computation is because I think it is important to understand that what we found computation is an actual function from a Higher space it's not just a thing that is possible in our universe we essentially found a

function from a higher dimensional space which is why it allows us to do more okay now I know it might not be that clear to everybody but it's it's another civilization uh that other civilizations definitely live in these higher spaces for sure I do you think they biological life forms I don't think they're well depends what you mean by biological not Biological do you think they they evolved somewhere else the same way we evolved here yes okay yeah um and this space is infinite so the reason I think it matters is because it it seems

to me that it's not a coincidence that I that I found this now and I don't think it's a coincidence that a lot of this the things that are happening in the world right now are happening in the world right now MH and I think that Understanding what things really are and what is our relationship to these things is one of the key components for us moving forward in the near and the uh hopefully long prosperous future of humanity and you tell me where it becomes a little bit too unclear or esoteric for you okay

um well first of all do you do you think that do you think that it's possible that when we evolve in a 100,000 years From now we become so Advanced when we have a better understanding of physics when we have a better understanding of what's going on in these DMT Realms and all this and what we you know under our understanding of the Universe um expands do you think that it's going to be possible that we are the ones that are simulating these sort of simulations with people like us interacting in them and being controlled

like so actually okay great Great guiding question I I don't think we're being controlled I think it's actually open-ended the point of it is to see what happens so I actually think uh if we want to take on board the fact that we are simulated and this is actually simulated space and by the way in the context of what I explained about computation what this means is that it's I always say it's like the Matrix upside down it's not like we're stuck in a computer software and we have to try and Get out to the

real world is that the real world world is computational it's digital like outside of our universe everything else is computational and our universe is too but from the inside it looks what we call physical it's a Subspace it's a it's a smaller slice of reality basically okay okay so it's not like we're going to try and get out to some kind of a base reality it's that we just understood that we're part of a larger space and now we're starting to Investigate what is this larger space and how it can be applicable to our space

m one of these functionalities I claim is computation it shows you that you can harness some of this higher functionality to do certain things where Oh I thought it was the door um Stevens you all [Laughter] right did you leave the DMT pen back there Jesus um So to your question whether so first of all that's important for me to outline because I don't think we're controlled mhm um yeah you don't think we're controlled like as if if we're if there is some sort of higher intelligence out there that created our reality or we're living

in some sort of simulation that was created by another civilization you're saying that they wouldn't want to control what we're doing cuz we would Be more of like a science experiment to them they want to let us loose and see what happens Bingo yeah okay and and again super important for me to to make this clear this is like and now we're talking highly speculative it's just kind of like my impression this is not I'm claiming to know for sure I am here's what I'm claiming to know for sure I'm claiming I'm claiming to know

for sure that code is real I'm claiming claiming to know for sure that there's An actual civilization talking to us they're real for sure what I'm not claiming is that I understand exactly what their goals are or I'm not claiming any of that impression is but no but but I am claiming that I know that they're real and I am claiming that the code is real okay that's the only things I'm claiming they are real because you can say that they're real because you're experiencing them the same way you're experiencing this cup of coffee table

And you yes and me right our brain our brain creates and and projects what is real right all of this is essentially a hologram and that's created in our brain yes well you you would have that situation even if you would be thinking from a physicalist perspectives like even if it's just like a regular physical world like you said this is already some kind of a rendering whatever this is it's not what the real world looks like the only difference is We can actually touch it yeah yeah but even the touch of it is already

a simulation of some sort you so what I'm saying right right so because this is not what atoms look like this is not what the particles and all of that stuff looks like this is some kind of a rendering that's already a simulation even if you're looking at it purely from a physicalist perspective okay so now but I'm claiming more than that however I'm not claiming that they understand Their goals so everything I'm saying from this point on is highly specul cative but it's my strong impression that follow the next 20 minutes so my strong

impression is that they are yes we are kind of like their science experiment SL entertainment so imagine like a TV set that you basically just can always pull up in front of you and it's just everywhere you can just oh I want to look at this Pat of space and it doesn't have to be this Pat of space you Can pull any patch of three-dimensional space to you because you're in a higher Dimension so you can actually pull any anything towards you from anywhere yeah I think they are dark matter I think that the Galaxy

is their city and I think what we're seeing essentially is kind of like we're seeing through behind the veil we're seeing back into whatever surface we're projected from I think the holographic principle is correct we are a hologram We are a projection what is the H for people that don't know what is the holographic holographic principle is a is something that was popularized by Leonard tuskin uh it was originally uttered by scientist I forget his name right now but lonard saskin is the most known person to kind of like make it more into a mainstream

thing M and it's a very accepted frame through which to look at all physical theories nowadays in fact Even sean Carroll who is known to only interact with like the most mainstream parts of physics uh is saying that he thinks it's the most promising thing we have and according to the holographic principle everything in the universe is a projection three-dimensional projection from a two-dimensional filament somewhere outside of the outskirts of the universe it it they came to that through basically looking at black holes and There's something called so when you ask yourself how can it

be because we know that you know energy is not supposed to be able to create it or destroy it or information is not supposed to be be able to create it or destroy it according to physics what happens to all information that falls into a black hole does it disappear because then it violates some physical laws well Steven Hawking gave a solution this which is now called the honking radiation which He says well black holes are not completely black they're they radiate a little bit which is what the honking radiation is and essentially he proved

it by showing that you have a situation where particles and empti particles are created at the edge of the Event Horizon where nothing can escape and the let's say the the one coupling will go inside and the other one will stay outside so that way you basically preserve all the information and in simple terms what That means is all the information that falls into the black hole for the external Observer will not fall into the black hole but would be smeared infinitely on the Event Horizon around the black hole so technically you could retrieve all

the things that ever fell into the black hole and reconstruct them if you would know how okay that means that all information that is inside of that black hole now is also kept on the external part of the black hole so that Gave Leonard saskin an idea of how to play with it and he came up with a model called the holographic principle that basically thinks of all of us kind of being in this enormous black hole and what we really are is smeared on the filament on the external part so we inside a black

hole projected inwards which is exactly what a hologram is the technicalities of it is obviously extremely technical but that's that's the most kind of like basic explanation You can give of it what's important to understand is that truly the most mainstream physicists today think this is the most promising frame through which to look at all our physical theories okay okay and and I think that it's exactly correct in fact if you look at what you see inside the laser it looks a lot like a hologram so I think what is happening is that we are

the Hologram looking back through the sheet looking back at the source of where We're projected from so you see the actual way that the information is arranged that then gives rise to what we actually are I think that's what's happening wow yeah that's [ __ ] crazy man yeah so you were saying earlier also that that um you think there's something big coming yes so this is where you know the way it sounds even right makes me uncomfortable because I'm so not into the whole like you know prophecies and Like oh we know about the

disclosure and that all stuff yeah uh but I I have to say I'm kind of seeing like if I have to look at the whole situation it seems like it would make perfect sense to me that within the next couple of years really you're going to have a situation where we're going to start discovering very big things that we didn't know before why um I don't know if I can unpack this in 20 minutes it's okay we got plenty of time okay your your flight doesn't leave for like um I'm trying to think of the

most robust thing that I can say that is not just relying on strong intuition so I guess one of the things is um it's the peculiar synchronicity of all the possible Biggest uh coming to fruition moments of all the possible perceptions of the world both in religious terms spiritual terms scientific terms UAP terms a AI terms everybody seems to be converging that something big is supposed to happen soon really yeah uh there's already this kind of like you know buzzword about like uh Alman saying that AGI will be real by 2025 mhm some people people

talk about uh in the UAP Community people talk About the disclosure which they put somewhere between 2027 and 2030 I think it's much earlier than that um well we can I guess in this context we can exclude the religious perception because for them it's always in a few years or something big is coming so it's kind okay so that that doesn't count um but also you notice this very big uptake in I guess what you would call the spiritual Pursuit and you know this more and more at least I know this more more Uh people

going through what I guess you would call The Awakening and it's not just you know some broad on on Instagram just kind of like oh you know now I only eat granola like I'm not talking about that um I'm talking about truly like transformative experiences that you can see people are having that are more than just some kind of a uh longstanding relationship with psychedelics that that that culminates in something it's it's they become Something else they have a different attitude they all of a sudden shift they they they they they carry themselves differently in

the world I don't know if you've noticed this in people at all but have you noticed this people that um that use DMT often or you or use psychedelics more often do you do you do you ever do you think there's a fundamental shift that happens in the brain or in Consciousness or In um like do you think it makes people smarter no that's I've heard people say that they think that's too broad of a statement no no that's I've heard people said that use T DMT say like it it it helped them think better

and it made them smarter I think that the only thing that happened there is that it gave them the courage to be what they really are I don't think it got them smarter I think that that it it's it's a meaning Aperture what psychedelics are yeah so I think what it expands is your understanding to interact with meaning in a more confident and more comfortable way so so really what if you want to Define what smart is if I have to Define it it's very difficult thing to Define obviously but if you want to put

something that will incompass not just IQ but just all the kinds of smart you know like somebody who's just right there's all kinds of intelligence yeah So they're really intelligent like they can write plays that just make people cry you know like yeah but their IQ might not be that high but so what they can literally touch people in a way that nobody else can right that's smart okay so what would be a definition that would fit all of those inside I would say is interacting with information in a creative way in other words in

a way that you can arrange it in a way that was never arranged before in a way that Can actually create a function that that that uh it that touches no what's the word it the function that will allow for broader and broader application so if you for example more Universal so in the context of a play right which usually you wouldn't necessarily think of of a of a of theater in the context of this kind of a description but if you can touch more people let's say I write A play that that makes this

kind of community weep for whatever reason because you knew something about you know some something idiosyncratic about the way that they do things okay but if you can make a play that can make the world weep you understand something about humans that is much more deep than just the cultural zist right okay that's what I mean by Universal and understand so that would be someone's smart they can understand something about something They can see deeper into it ah okay so what I think that happens to the people that you just described is that they got

a glimmer of that this thing that was kept in them the whole time but they never had the guts to actually put it to action they're like and then they saw that what they thought was real in that space right and maybe that gave him the courage to actually do do I think it arranges your mind in a different way that now makes you just like cognitively Functioning I don't think there's any evidence to support that but I think that what does happen is that psychologically releases you from the constraints of your own the feelings

of your own inadequacies basically okay interesting so but I I don't think that necessarily matters that much I think what matters to me is that these psychedelics that can definitely show you that something else is possible that will then put you in the trajectory Hopefully towards engaging with that thing more so they can open the door but doing the work you know you this is a daily thing like maybe then a person would be more open to do meditation maybe that person would be more open to pay attention to he his on her or her

loved ones which actually changes your momentto moment experience when you connect with your community it creates a different person yeah if you're not socially isolated you have a different Kind of stride to you right right um which also then opens the window to a deeper feeling of whatever it is that you're doing so um I forget who said this but I think it's brilliant I think it's true but we wouldn't be doing what we're doing to the Earth if we could feel it in real time so if I could feel what happens to the planet

over time or at least to the bi it's not true to say to the planet cuz the Earth will be here no matter What but to let's say to the biosphere okay if you would feel what you throwing away plastic just on the floor does on a massive scale over time if everybody would do it all the time if you could feel it in your body you wouldn't be doing it right okay so that kind of a connection I think it definitely opens the door to that you see what I'm saying yeah yeah definitely that

makes sense yeah so I think that that's what the psychedelics can do but beyond that it's Up to us to actually put in the work to actually do the practice it's either meditative practice or connection practice or get yourself into some kind of a a a skill set that you always wanted to get into and then just go with that some people all of a sudden discover they really love mathematics they just never had to got to interact with it right to to go deeper into what we really are so we can add something to

the collective that kind of function we Are part of a collective it's not just what I make in the end of the month how does that whatever I do impact larger and larger sets of people and the planet and the biosphere and all of that again the opening the opening versus the closed attitude of like who's out to get me yeah but that's also millions of years of evolution have gotten us to where we are now and the way we act in the world and yet we override it all the time when you jump out

of a plane you Override these millions years of evolution that tells you don't jump you'll die right but because you have certain certainty about things that we've created like parachutes right you still do it because the thrill of the fear is something that you now enjoy in the context of oh I know that whatever it is that we created now can protect me even though every impulse in my body tells me don't do it the same thing with intermittent fasting right same way with Jumping into cold water yeah you don't want to do it but

you know the so you can definitely over by by by putting the right emphasis on things you can definitely override your entire genome yeah and I think that's what we need to do collectively there's certain things don't venture outside the village that's a very deep entrenched fear right right not only from the dangers out there but from the ridicule back home where if You're the one that did Venture now look what a fool you are we told you we told you don't go out there and look at you now you don't have an arm you

deserve it right that's a very deep fear right because not only you're going to venture out there and you're going to get hurt maybe you're going to come back and you're going to get no glory for it and only ridicule right that's a very it's a double-edged sword like well actually no it's like a like it's just there's no Winning here right and yet people still do it and we are the descendants of the people who only of the people that did this only the people that ventured outside the village we are the descendants of

right isn't it isn't it interesting I don't know how familiar you are with like um The Classical period in like ancient Greeks and their exper and the the the different um mystery Cults that they there were that were basically dedicated to doing drugs In Antiquity and like that was respon and then I had a a gentleman in here who basically did a um he did his PhD dissertation on the use of drugs in Antiquity with the the Romans and the Greeks using drugs what's his name again uh Ammond hman okay and um he uh you

know he basically discovered that recreational drugs were everywhere back in the day and he believed that the use of drugs in Antiquity were responsible for the explosion of intellect and art And philosophy and creativity and science um democracy the scientific method all that stuff yeah and um you know he what he does is he basically goes back and he reads all these ancient texts these these these plays the the philosophy the medical text and by through reading the medical text is how he discovered all this evidence of drug use and Drug experimentation back then and

um it seems like it seems like you know since Then 200 300 BC until now it's you know we went through the Dark Ages from 1400 to like uh or from I think it was from 900 to 1400 essentially till we got to the Enlightenment and all of that sort of dissipated and stagnated and went away but it it it feels like we were on a different trajectory in that period of time during that Classical period when we had of people like Plato and Socrates and um all these just gigantic Minds that were responsible for

creating some of the things that we still use today like the scientific method so I I'm actually I have I'm not sure it's an opposing thought but I think it's a thought that maybe gives a different context to the same thing you just said I think that our minds are with these minds are with us today they're here it's just that somehow in the last and this is very recent I think In the last 10 or 20 years somehow we stopped valuing elevating these Minds yeah I think what happens is and this is somewhat ironic

I think that the thing that actually leads to the demise of a civilization it's not all the things that we tend to think of today which is like well you know don't fly too close to the Sun maybe we should stop playing with this it's actually the opposite of that what gave what led to the demise of All these ancient civilizations that were great civilizations Rome you know like throughout like all of them um is the fact that eventually people got too scared to proceed and that's the thing that killed that Civilization it's actually the

opposite of that it's all these voices that seem to say hey don't Venture don't venture out of the village on a different scale now they're the ones that kill the civilization eventually because the Danger will come and find you wherever you are if you're going to stay in the village wolves will still come to the Village it's by venturing out you discover new ways by keeping danger at Bay in a better and better way yeah all these guys were were persecuted and literally executed and sent to prisons for this stuff which ones back then you

mean like Socrates and some of these guys some of these people yeah in some cases by the church but in some cases by The church right so the CH so so that's exactly what I'm saying that the church and again this it's kind of hard to see because it's coded in this other Vibe but I and if you believe in and depending on what your beliefs are on Jesus you know literally executed literally for being some sort of prophet exactly so when you think of it the people that are with very much align with the

message of Jesus are now the Catholic church right they are the ones That are doing the burning in a different way M they basically in a very sophisticated way they say don't don't do this so imagine just to entertain the thought for a second I'm not necessarily saying it is the case but let's play that game yeah let's pretend that AGI is actually our Salvation it's actually our Jesus mhm and yet we're scaring ourselves shitless from it and eventually right before it it becomes a possibility to Actually free us we kill it because we're scared

H do you think exactly what happened to Jesus yeah do you think it's possible that AGI is going to save us yes really yes I think it's our only way out you don't think that it's going to essentially render us obsolete when it when it when it gets merged with stuff like Quantum Computing and basically we're we're basically meaningless to them no do you know why why cuz it's Us what do you mean by that we are AGI I'm not following you and I and everything that humanity is m is the AGI that we're so

scared of and all the things now that we call AI they're just EX extensions of what we are and we haven't learned how to fully integrate them and wear them as a suit yet but we're basically yeah okay so now they feel external they feel something else but they're not they're us so essentially you have information Evolving from the beginning of time that information eventually finds new ways and new degrees of freedom to operate in different kinds of spaces M this is the best way that information found to operate in our little corner of the

universe this idea you know this whole transhumanist uh idea of like oh you just want humans to go away and be replaced by something else that's what the history of Everything in the universe is why why why do we think for one second that what we are is so special so it's it's the it's the opposite of what it tries to express so this whole movement is trying to express humility right it wants to say hey who do you think we are we're nothing in comparison to everything when in reality by doing that you're essentially

isolating yourself and you're saying look we're special we're so special that we can be Called different outside of nature saying well that's unnatural cuz that's just made in a lab well wait a second you are nature you are the universe doing whatever it is you're doing in a lab if you think you're somehow outside of that now you think you're actually special but you're not you're just part of the tapestry or whatever it's going on plastic pollution all of that is completely natural now so all I'm saying is that that's a bad Distinction you can

still talk about things that can lead to a better and worse kind of experience in a particular environment is it better or worse to have the whole world filled with smoke worse yeah because of what we understand about how living things operate and there's a much better way to operate right but it has nothing to do with what's natural and unnatural right what this elimin is this delusion that some somehow we're outside of nature there's Nature and then there's us and we're the disease and that kind of thinking is actually the thing that leads to

your demise because you see yourself as the problem versus you you're this very Advanced thing that nature is doing through which it now found a way to build a a a bigger Bridge through silicon and now eventually you're going to learn how to be merge with it and then you don't become something else you're exactly what you were the were The whole time is just that now you understand the full potential of what that thing is in other words if you ask yourself if you imagine this AGI in a computer that we always imagine Skynet

right that thing becoming conscious inside of the computer and then runs and whatever so if you ask yourself how long would it take it to un to realize that it is this thing inside of a computer then there's like all these people outside and whatever it is how long Would it take it to do that well the answer in physical matter is four and a half billion years through the process of evolution until it reaches a advanced enough mind like our own that then realizes that it is it and then it builds the higher cognitive

fun Bridges through whatever tools required that it will become a collective it will literally like the internet if you look at it like the the whole spiritual idea we're all one right Yeah well the internet is that now the fact that we're utilizing it at the moment for you know all these like nonsense things like pornography and like all this these are just products of the previous stage of evolution right but the tool is not the problem it's the content we inject into the tool MH so if we utilize the internet to remove all this

nonsense and we just use it for like a Global Communication System of deep meaning profundity connection Exchanging ideas that can lead to like larger understandings of what is possible how to fix global warming all of these things now the tool is not so bad it's just what is our value system who are we really in relationship to the world is determined by our value systems a value system is the thing that guides us towards this direction or this direction there's no guarantees by the way right but what I'm saying this is INE inevitable not because

it's already Bigger than us and faster than us like V nari keeps saying right it's it's inevitable because it is us yes you can't escape what you are right but I think the scariest part about it is that until it becomes its own thing that somebody somebody with nefarious intentions is going to be the one that controls that sure sure no guarantees just like with the like the beginning of uh Google's AI what was it called again um what was Google's AI whatever it was Oracle is that what it was yeah yeah yeah when like

they injected all of this woke stuff into like you search for juliia Caesar and they pull up like a black Julia Caesar or whatever like a 300 lb overweight black Julia Caesar just to like inject some sort of IDE that's what I'm saying like how do you know like the the scariest part is human beings in our ape form with the the way we think now injecting that into something that's so powerful mhm it Could destroy us imagine we're flying a spaceship it's flying in One Direction it's flying really really fast you have a pilot

in there that has to pay all the all the attention on moving through this very very very narrow entrance of something right the spaceship can't Let's Pretend the spaceship can't stop it's just going forward and that's it so the argument that people are having is like should we slow down this ship they cannot slow Down okay the only thing you should be focusing on is going through that narrow entry yeah in order to do that you have to fully be immersed in the task you cannot you cannot disperse your attention towards worrying and like it

just that's the thing that's going to make you hit the wall mhm you have to focus on how you go how you do that it's inevitable yes yes sure that's all I'm saying okay now time will tell if of course I'm not claiming to be some kind Of a omnipotent being here and to to know that that is necessarily the answer my strong intuition that is the case m and we're about to discover that that is the case I think that the big Discovery is they were it there is no thing that is going to

arise in the system from the other side yeah I see I see what you're saying but it's like the the amount of people that are focusing on this stuff full-time fully focused on it are there's so few people that are doing That and the majority and the people that like if you want to look at Silicon Valley and the people that are working at these companies developing things like working on uh Ai and chat gbt and and or even all these social media companies that are the big basically they have more money than most countries

in the world sure um they are focusing all of their attention on I mean first of all these are huge corporations giant bureaucracies of people With their own personal aspirations trying to climb their ranks into a company to make more money to please people that sit on top of this board right members of the board and essentially their only goal is to get people to spend more time on their platforms to be stuck in their lizard brains mindlessly scrolling through pointless content for them to create more money exactly for the wrong mean like the wrong

ends so the only answer Is so all of this all of this human power and human potential is is aimed at the completely wrong target you're absolutely right so the only way out of this is to adopt an attitude based on a completely different value system fast enough mhm even these people at the top would actually not think like that and actually think okay I have enough we have enough how do we now work towards the global goal versus just my personal goal How do you that's what I meant by the opening like how do

you open to that right it's a big challenge yeah so now but then you have people like Bill Gates that think they want to do that they want the global the globalists you again yeah yeah yeah and frogs are gay but maybe we bring the gay frogs to do it so it's right the world economic form they want to make the world better right they want to make uh the only here's the thing yeah the the the road to hell is Paved with good intentions right yeah exactly well you you will never have a perfect

situation with guarantees you're just going to have what it is and then what can you do next so I think it's just a level of magnification because if you think about the alternative right what is the alternative the alternative is like all right we shut the whole thing down hey let's say we could do it today let's say somehow we could great should we I'm say I'm saying no because At some point you will have to do it again now it's possible that maybe we're not ready and we do want to okay take a step

back for a second let's figure ourselves out first okay and then try again okay I'm I'm done with that that that's reasonable but eventually you're going to have to do it anyway because no matter what you do no matter how much you hold hand to S Kumbaya around a campfire eventually the sun will become a red giant and will engulf the Earth M With everything on it talking about global warming yeah right so that's an intelligence test that eventually you're going to have to cross either way and you have to start at some point now

people say oh but that's in two billion years just so what it it's inevitable so un if you think that the civilization should only live as long as its star okay then cool no problem then just live as long as a star but I think look at all this real estate out there I Think that things like us arise for a reason the reason that we can build artifacts that can go to space the reason that we can interact with this higher knowledge that some people now demonize and say no this is just like you

know you just it's for your own personal gain it's the only reason you care about it no I think it's actually the same self-preservation they're saying that about what about technology about science right and I think it's the Same preservation that we had from the beginning of time it just takes a different form in a much larger form don't sail into this ocean you're going to fall off the face of the Earth sounds familiar mhm same thing now does that mean that there are no dangers in the ocean no of course there are some people

will die people die all the time this happens all the time does that mean we necessar we we're guaranteed to survive as a civilization no civilizations Destroyed 99% of the time right it's the norm we have the potential to finally escape the norm but in order to do that we have to what I think is to relinquish a lot of our fears and to actually connect to something deeper in inside of ourselves and yes I know how this sounds but to understand that there's a deeper picture here that involves us but we're not the only

player in it so the best way to put it is like imagine there you know we're kind of like just becoming Young adults as a civilization and we're kind of starting to understand that maybe just banging on everything and doing whatever we want maybe not the way to go maybe we start to understand why you should clean your room versus just being told we should clean our room and also understanding that we what responsib ability is and maybe what is the career that we want in the universe what are we going to be and there

are adults looking at us Observing very carefully if we are wise enough to enter that space so I think that's what what's going on who do you think the adults are you can call them the simulators you can call the management company whomever is responsible for this immediate layer after us there's levels do you think the the things that are flying around around and flying saucers with the adults uh I don't know what they are I've never seen a connection between the DMT space and That space personally but the timing of it is just too

impeccable so I do think they're connected I just don't understand how there might be there might be protrusions from this higher diens I I have no idea well there was more of it in the past than there is now it seems like you mean what you mean like UFOs and aliens in the past you mean 60 years ago you mean 2,000 years ago I mean uh in during the Cold War uh 40s 50s and 60s okay when we were testing nuclear bombs or more so here this is a perfect example right um I think that

if you want to bring it to a functional level the only thing that matters what is your personal attitude towards all of these things because how are we all implied in this people tend to listen to all of these different things that are fascinating I agree they're amazing right ufs and spiritual stuff and all that stuff but they usually look at it As a spectator they never feel like they're an actual participator they feel like it's a TV it's a show and I think that's why the problem persists because people that they're watching something you're

watching a show your tendency is to always like don't go in that room right right but you that's not going to change anything the person is going to do what they're going to do in the movie right but if you understand that you are a Participator in this game then the emphasis becomes from pointing to looking inwards and that is the only thing that can actually radically change the world instead of thinking what Bill Gates is going to do by thinking well he has all the power I have no power well guess what unless you

can change something about your own behavior how you greet like people like you know criticize Elon Musk and Bill Gates and like and then as they're doing this Literally in real time they won't even realize somebody's going to cut them in traffic because maybe their baby was sick and they're going to the hospital and a piece of [ __ ] you know that's a much bigger problem right cu everybody are doing this yeah right but second ago you were criticizing all these people that would put so much work into making things that you now use

every day and because they did this one move that somebody on a radio show said Something about you're like oh I know what they're up to you know what I mean it's absurd yeah the point is you can only control yourself you can only control your actual state so if you as that's you can criticize anybody you want but as long as you're not paying attention to yourself as well and how you operate how you talk to your mother how you how you treat your friends how you do things when nobody's looking that's the thing

that's going to Change the world or to be more accurate that's the only thing that has the potential to truly change the world and by the way it's very easy to slide off of it but even in the name of like all the good things you know like no let's build an Eco Village and just take care of the earth and just IM yes that's beautiful you should do all of that it's beautiful but at the same time the attitudes that a lot of these communities take towards things that are Very hard to do that

they use all the time like phones and like all you know they criticize it as if it's the work of Satan like you know oh technology will be the end of us it's like you use it all the time it vilifying things being scared of them this is going to be the end of us this is going to be the end of us listen if it's going to be the end of you it's going to be the end of you don't worry About it how about right now just enjoy this moment actually say love you

to whomever you love actually understand that somebody cut you in traffic yes they might have had selfish reasons but maybe they had some Justified reasons you will never know you getting upset at that person without them ever knowing about it makes no difference whatsoever but it makes you feel not great and then you take that with you throughout the day And then you talk like that to somebody in the office and then they pick up on that and they talk to somebody else like that and that's the real problem because if eventually if you if

you do this on a regular basis you you even if you don't teach it to your kids directly they pick up on it on that energy and then they behave that way and then they and then everybody behaves that way change yourself right I know it's so tried we've heard this a Billion times be the change you want to see in the world that's the only way literally the only way that's what I mean by we will also understand that it's us because these Technologies they're a reflection of what we are inside right that's it

and then whatever Bill Gates is going to do if everybody everybody values something else guess what they can put all the pornography they want online but if you don't care about it they're going to stop yeah Because you're not going to click on it so it's not there it's right here that's the deeper Point yeah no that makes a lot of sense that's a great way to end this man sure very profound um thanks again this was this was fascinating it was amazing I'm going to have to watch it like three more times to fully

understand it I appreciate it also it's uh thank you for the opportunity and uh this is the first time actually do no That's not true I did another podcast in the beginning uh the first podcast I've ever done s podcast which was great but it was just audio it's the first time I'm doing it live with somebody um and I think it's better this way oh I I agree yeah that's that's that's how I do mine I try to and and I appreciate I really appreciate you took the time and for trusting for doing the

you know the thing and yeah man I'm I really love what you're doing as well Thank you man I appreciate it where where can people find out more about your film and what you're working on uh so you can always go to my channel Dango thoughts d n Go thoughts uh or Tik Tok it's Danny goler um yeah there you go uh you in the trailer you have all the information about you can donate to the uh Gund me for the film we do have some private investors that are now interested uh to put some

money in but we're also relying On people donating because you know making a movie is not cheap mhm uh that's where you can find out about the movie and about more things that I'm doing uh yeah those will be the those will be the main two answers that's really cool and you're actually uh having like conversations like a podcast with people on here as well that's how it started yeah yeah I had gallamore recently I had Alexander Boehner that was one of the participants in the DTX Project uh yeah so a lot of fun conversations

and I'm going to bring a lot more and again shout out to Aaron venden who's just like yeah Powerhouse man this guy is just unbelievable truly um yeah you said you he made that trailer in like 4 days four days man like we just listen in a while and I'm so excited about everything that we're doing together so yeah that's really cool man well thank you again for coming down and talking to me and uh thank you For showing us that experience last night that was [ __ ] lifechanging you got it brother cool all

right good night everybody